Donald & Hillary

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Re: Donald - Hillary = a peaceful transition of power

Post by semisynthetic » Wed Nov 09, 2016 7:59 pm

There is too much Fear and Hatred all over this Thread. Hillary Clinton gave a very heartfelt appearance today; it seemed to be genuine and real. If THAT side of Hillary Clinton had been on view this last month, reasonable and human in her emotions, displayed but controlled, and the words she used praising our Democratic Republic, this page may have been very different today. President Obama likewise sensibly referred repeatedly to the smooth transition of power in our democracy. No troops or tanks or coup by the loser of an election or by the Military. I believe that lesson was perhaps the most important of all, but I did not see that here. I was honestly ready for WHATEVER and whoever came; for BOTH candidates were flawed, and it is in my opinion, difficult to say they were not. Let us see where we go from here with less gnashing of teeth and fear. The Election, thank goodness, is over. There are positive points to consider and share as well as doubts, and this was so - long before the ballots were counted. Why are the positive points dismissed so easily when they also matter?
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Re: Donald & Hillary

Post by MODLAB » Wed Nov 09, 2016 8:02 pm

I have no hatred. My hatred lies in the American system and how the presidency is elected. It's flawed and not geared towards a peoples majority.


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Re: Donald & Hillary

Post by TheWarmth » Wed Nov 09, 2016 8:22 pm

It's pretty clear that 100% of Pence's decisions are informed first and foremost by his religion. That's a huge problem. Separation of church and state is not in play with him. Hence, his war on the LBGT community, which wound up being disastrous for the state of Indiana. All of my friends in Indianapolis are glad to be rid of him, but shuddering at the thought of him gaining even more power.

Yes, Clinton and Obama made nice speeches today promoting a peaceful transition of power. Had Trump given the same speech, it would be basically read, "RIGGED. Burn this motherfucker down."

If you want to talk about hatred and fear, let's look at Trump's positions:

Anti-Gay
Anti-Women
Anti-Muslim
Anti-Immigrant
Anti-Mexican

Sorry, man, I can't get behind it. We've been over all this before. Not sure what good it does for me to attempt to drive home these points again, but I'm not going to sit on my hands and pretend like everything will miraculously fall into place.

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Re: Donald & Hillary

Post by rapideye » Wed Nov 09, 2016 8:43 pm

You get fear and hatred because that was all Trump preached over the last 18 months. He played on the fear and hatred to get the votes. The astonishing part in all this is that he succeeded. I'm embarrassed for those that voted for him. They can only be delusional if they think he'll work for them. To still vote for him after all the things he said, all the lies and that fucking quiff well, just defies logic.

Warmth - I'm in the UK and have 11 year old Twins who are fairly well clued up on a lot of current affairs. They've been following the election with interest and astounded by Trump and the things he said. I mean at that age they're pretty innocent, right? They believe in being fair and honest. One of them broke down in tears this morning after being told who won. She just couldn't believe it. 11 years old and worried about what wars might happen, about trade implications and immigrants. It took a little while to calm her down. Fear and hatred is what she took from this election.

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Re: Donald & Hillary

Post by semisynthetic » Wed Nov 09, 2016 8:48 pm

That may not be such a bad plan. It will at least allow us all to get past this Election - awhile anyway; a little time is obviously needed.
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Re: Donald & Hillary

Post by The Dr » Wed Nov 09, 2016 9:07 pm

at least there will be more guns floating around now...i'm kidding, it's done. brexit means brexit

maybe there can be a new union? trump, putin, kin jon whu and something may
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Re: Donald & Hillary

Post by clewsr » Thu Nov 10, 2016 9:42 am

I was listening to Niaomi Wolf on radio 4 this morning. And she successfully made the point that the debate is not so much about left vs right anymore, it is about Globalisation and the lack of jobs. Trump won on an anti globalisation agenda, bringing jobs back to America and infrastructure investment. Along with the obvious peddling of racism and sexism.

The thing is Trump managed to talk to people in the US - in the same way that Farage did here -who've seen jobs and industries collapse and who have no hope for meaningful jobs in the future, or in the ability for traditionally 'left' politicians to address the problems. The lack of ability or inclination of Obama as well as Hilary to reach into this void in the last few years has been part of the problem. Which is why it has been relatively easy for voters in traditionally poor democratic areas to switch to Trump.

The fact that we have charlatans like Trump and Farage being able to adopt the causes of the working class is kind of madness. Particularly when for the first time in my memory we had genuine alternatives in Sanders and Corbyn who have been pointing out similar problems but with much greater honesty and intelligence. The fact is that here in the UK Corbyn's own Labour party have done everything possible to get rid of him, and Sanders was blocked out by the democrats even when it was clear he had a better chance of addressing the arguments that Trump made. The reluctance of our existing politicians and media to challenge big business, or do anything that creates the potential for real change is quite a big factor in both Trump and Brexit.

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Re: Donald & Hillary

Post by TheWarmth » Thu Nov 10, 2016 3:37 pm

Let's not forget about all of this bullshit:

"Before Donald Trump raises his right hand to take the oath of office in January, he’s set for a less-auspicious swearing-in: taking the witness stand in his own defense in a federal court civil trial over alleged fraud in his Trump University real estate seminar program.

Trump faces a legal ordeal no president-elect has ever encountered: juggling defending himself before a jury with preparing for the vast challenges a political novice will face in assuming the presidency.

American voters didn’t seem to care about Trump’s allegedly fraudulent “university” scheme, but the president-elect stands accused of running an ugly scam, bilking customers/students out of quite a bit of money. Many of the victims of Trump’s alleged con filed a class-action lawsuit, and jury selection is due to begin on Nov. 28 in San Diego.

The Republican will be the first president-elect to defend himself in court ahead of his inauguration. District Court Judge Gonzalo Curiel, the target of racist attacks from Trump during the campaign, will oversee the proceedings.

Making matters worse for the incoming president, this isn’t the only Trump-related case to keep an eye on.

The dubious “Trump University” operation isn’t just facing a civil suit; it’s also under investigation from the New York attorney general’s office. Trump’s suspicious charitable foundation, which has also been accused of being a scam, is also facing legal scrutiny.

What’s more, the FBI has reportedly looked into the Trump campaign’s ties to Russian officials – more on this a little later this morning – and as USA Today recently reported, there are literally dozens of pending lawsuits surrounding Trump and his business enterprises that don’t simply go away because Americans elected him.

Trump faces significant open litigation tied to his businesses: angry members at his Jupiter, Fla. golf course say they were cheated out of refunds on their dues and a former employee at the same club claims she was fired after reporting sexual harassment…. Trump is also defending lawsuits tied to his campaign. A disgruntled GOP political consultant sued for $4 million saying Trump defamed her. Another suit, a class action, says the campaign violated consumer protection laws by sending unsolicited text messages.

If elected, the open lawsuits will tag along with Trump. He would not be entitled to immunity, and could be required to give depositions or even testify in open court. That could chew up time and expose a litany of uncomfortable private and business dealings to the public.

Note, none of these cases include the lawsuits Trump threatened to file during the campaign, including vows to go after the many women who accused him of sexual misconduct.

These controversies also don’t include the IRS audit of Trump’s finances, which remains unresolved, and which may or may not exist. (It’s an open question as to whether or not the Republican simply made up the audit; neither he nor his team have ever substantiated the claims.)"

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Re: Donald & Hillary & The Decline of Universities

Post by semisynthetic » Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:43 pm

There is a sadly ironic message in seeing rioters and hooligans carrying "Love trumps Hate" signs, smashing anything they can, including people they THINK may have voted "the wrong way". How embarrassing it is to see University students (and their professors), skip Finals because they are too emotionally "distraught" over a Presidential Election! The last straw is to see a "cry in", and (supposedly) mature adult students regressing to "checking out Play-Doh and colored pencils to deal with" an outcome they were told over and over could not happen. And these people are expected to do well in the real world? Good luck.
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Re: Donald & Hillary

Post by spzretent » Mon Nov 14, 2016 7:45 pm

All this before uber alt.right, anti semite scumbag Steve Bannon was given a prime post in the Trump administration.
This is really terrifying news if you happen to be female, gay, black, hispanic, muslim or jewish.
If not you should be ok.
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Re: Donald & Hillary

Post by semisynthetic » Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:04 pm

This Bannon, as a single person within this new administration is not going to set some sort of racial policy. His background is not that simple nor narrow.
What I am appalled by is a mindset that throws a tantrum when "the wrong side wins". I certainly would never have been out in the streets, paid by some entity to raise hell if "the wrong side" had won. Never have I seen these things since I was in 1st grade and Kennedy was elected - no such an en masse tantrum over an election. I wondered then why being Catholic was a problem. I am not Catholic.

The very idea of University students resorting to kindergarten toys is shocking, and I cannot imagine as a student or Professor to have walked out of Final Exams over an election. The candidate I preferred lost often. The people spoke and we moved on; there was no "cry ins" or thumbsucking. We continued on. Not get our huggie bear! No matter what our color or beliefs were.
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Re: Donald & Hillary

Post by spzretent » Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:34 pm

semisynthetic wrote:This Bannon, as a single person within this new administration is not going to set some sort of racial policy. His background is not that simple nor narrow.
.
I am appalled that this one voice, a rather large one, who will bring those things to the table because Donald Trump never distanced himself from the entire alt.right which his hiring of Steve Bannon legitimized in the first place. It was crucial to how Trump even won. His background may not be that narrow but he has certainly evolved into someone who stands for things I am 100% opposed to. This guy scares me.
The thought of having to see those cartoon characters Rudy & Newt I can deal with. Bannon? No way.
I don't care about the demonstrations. It is free speech until they start breaking things which has not happened in most instances. Portland maybe?
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Re: Donald & Hillary

Post by semisynthetic » Tue Nov 15, 2016 12:34 am

I don't mind peaceful protest, how could I object to the 1st amendment right to free speech? But when I see 4,5 or 6 people pull a fellow out of his car and beat the crap out of him because they THINK he might have voted wrongly is not acceptable. This little bit of fun was filmed in Chicago, not Oregon. For all I know, it was both and more. There was too much violence and too little thought. Peaceful protest, OK; if violent, someone goes to jail. But that understanding has been missing for years; so how can we expect much more than violence and Play-Doh even if Ren & Stimpy & Bannon & Bunion are in the picture? Why was the current President not telling the black youth and other minorities that gang land was nowhere and telling them OFTEN? That there are ways to learn and succeed.

I went to the city Library very often, and it paid off. I was in University years ahead; and when I tutored mainly black athletes I told them how to get more done and they'd never need worry about what their "homeboys" thought, something from them I heard often, concern for what they acknowledged as criminals thought! A few listened and became teachers and others got good jobs. Others went back to Chicago and other places and were murdered by gangs over the Holidays.

It seems like the current President was the ideal person to clean up these messes in places that are dangerous to exist in. That is a strange type of racism in itself. If I could help a few people make it, and they succeeded, surely a President of a similar background as they could have done much more for many of them other than to just redistribute the wealth.

I was ready for whoever came. I knew the Country could take 4 years (or less) of either candidate. Why not settle back and wait for an actual problem? Maybe the assorted cartoon characters will not be as horrible as we imagined on both sides? So give them some rope and see what they do with it; one or more may end up hanging themselves before causing anyone else any added troubles. I was willing to wait either way, it seems a reasonable approach. Trump is not even President yet, and I would have held off for either candidate until there was something more concrete than simply their existence.

But these "peaceful protests" that are being paid for to keep chaos on the front burner are not so very peaceful at all. I hope the people behind this thuggery are made to pay for the destruction and the ill will bred by it. It hurts the Country without any help from Bannon.
Last edited by semisynthetic on Tue Nov 15, 2016 3:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Donald & Hillary

Post by spzretent » Tue Nov 15, 2016 12:42 am

You really think people are being paid to protest and attack people? I find that laughable. More of the alt.right BS line of thinking.
What about the footage of middle schools kids chanting "Build The Wall" to Hispanic kids? That happened two miles down the road from me. People think that is ok now. There have been several cases of ethnic intimidation thanks to Donald Trump. Many of them after his inexplicable electoral college win Tuesday.
We are headed for turbulent times.
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Re: Donald & Hillary

Post by semisynthetic » Tue Nov 15, 2016 12:53 am

Yes I do believe it. I'd really rather NOT, but the evidence was shown in repeated hidden video tapings.
A Mr. Scott Foval, caught on several "Project Veritas" tapes refers at one point to assorted payments that vary to $1500 a night as the going rate DURING an election, so what might deeper and more sinister pockets pay Afterward? That price did not come from an "alt.right" or "Ult.right"; it came from videos showing the democratic operatives "dirty tricks" guys. One of these lower life forms has since found a job and his niche at The New York Times.

Now who is shelling out money? The "Ult.left" is not at all happy. I don't think Soros gives a damn about anyone's kids.

My cleaning lady announced long ago that she is proudly Mexican, NOT Latino, (NOT Hispanic), she really hates that. I never think of her as anything other than her name, "N." (unless there is a Spanish origin word in an old movie I don't know - then I ask her). I admire her, she is a great mom. Exactly the "profile" for Hillary - but she despises her! This lady will vote Trump.

Did you think it was a silly thing before you viewed the up to $1500 payment videos? And then the turning of the nasty people who were fired by elements of the DNC? An evil, old Billionaire wouldn't miss such small change, the one with the "god complex". The sweetheart of a person who did nasty things to the British £, remember? I don't think such people as he cares about others much at all. Just Pawns. Power and a way of Control. Not science fiction. Wish it was.

In coming months, regardless of what Trump manages to do, there will be a lot of money and personnel fighting (one another) to cause him trouble. THAT morsel came from the democrats and arguments on assorted Sunday shows, and who has rented lavish homes in Washington to cause trouble.
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Re: Donald & Hillary

Post by spzretent » Tue Nov 15, 2016 1:59 am

We are living in two completely different worlds.
You are not going to change my mind and I am not going to change your mind.
All I will tell you is I am very, very scared. Way more scared today than I was yesterday.
I am seriously thinking of getting the hell out of this country.
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Re: Donald & Hillary

Post by semisynthetic » Tue Nov 15, 2016 2:55 am

It is not that bad. This is a wonderful country. It is a beautiful country where many very different ways of thought are usually accepted. I am convinced that things will get better for more people; "my world" is but one of many facets of this country as "your world" is; millions of facets like a quality stone; it is beautiful here in the countryside, and the people are generally very polite. Those who are unkind or of bad temperament are usually known. If they wish to be so, that is their prerogative. I watched deer eating in the meadow today, drifting with the fog slowly towards the woodlands. It is beautiful. Maybe you have been in cities too much lately; too many people, too many problems. The city is usually very expensive; I should know, I have lived in too many for my own personal taste. Filthy, smelly air. Noise. Impoliteness. Selfishness.

Rather than give up the ship, Captain Spz, you should try calmer waters awhile. Even at home, you will see some changes that may not be the end of the World; it will get better. I am very confident about this country; I too have wondered "what next", but compared to everywhere I have been, this is a nice country, and I would not live anywhere else, except for an extended vacation.

I KNOW that this Election Cycle has been very hard on many of us, usually the people who care most are twisted about in all this craziness and the lowest of lifeforms, the political class. Professional technocrats who usually know just enough to get it wrong. Well, I said I'd take what came, and it is true that I am very plain spoken with members in the State and Federal Offices of the Party I usually vote for. They can be tossed out, you know. Some might be doing their best to do what is good for the Country; I think more than a few are. Maybe just leave politics alone until there us something juicier to chew on than the poor amount thus far of an administration leaving, and another on its way in, smoothly and without much fireworks except for fireworks. :D

semi.
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Re: Donald & Hillary

Post by TheWarmth » Tue Nov 15, 2016 2:59 am

Bannon is nightmare. Dude is considerably worse than any of the other dolts Trump has appointed, which is saying a lot. I cannot see how he and Paul Ryan or Rance Prangus, for example, are going to work together.

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Re: Donald & Hillary

Post by spzretent » Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:05 am

semisynthetic wrote:It is not that bad.

semi.
No. It just got infinitely worse and I have no idea what today's Trump news is. Been working all day.
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Re: Donald & Hillary

Post by semisynthetic » Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:48 am

I have been reading all day, so the Present is well, out of mind. But I can say it is looking very dire for the Carthagenians.
After splurging on a set of Sir Francis Bacon, I will start on c. 1830 A.D., tomorrow. My how time flies.
Last edited by semisynthetic on Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Donald & Hillary

Post by semisynthetic » Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:55 pm

Image

So far, so good for all of those with a 401k,
or retirement funds, et cetera.
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Re: Donald & Hillary

Post by TheWarmth » Tue Nov 22, 2016 3:55 pm

It strikes me as extremely interesting that Trump hasn't spoken out against the white nationalists, yet he's had time to lay into the cast of Hamilton and the media over the past few days. It's clear that based on his silence on the topic and the appointment of Bannon that's he's on board.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/21/politics/ ... index.html

Washington (CNN) — The racism and anti-Semitism of the alt-right movement were on display Saturday in Washington when its members gathered to celebrate Donald Trump's victory.

The president of the alt-right National Policy Institute Richard Spencer's remarks were posted Sunday on YouTube by "Red Ice Radio," which describes itself as "covering politics and social issues from a pro-European perspective." The Atlantic magazine, which is recording footage of Spencer for a documentary they're working on, also published a video of the same event showing audience members apparently giving the Nazi salute.

"Hail Trump! Hail our people! Hail victory!" he declared.

His remarks were filled with racist imagery -- including references to "the black political machines" and Latino housekeepers -- as he bashed Hillary Clinton's minority supporters.

"Her coalition was made up of mutually hostile tribes only united out of a hatred of 'whitey' -- that is to say, out of a hatred of us," Spencer said.

He added that "there are no two parts of this coalition who could ever be in the same room together for any length of time."

"America was, until this last generation, a white country, designed for ourselves and our posterity. It is our creation and our inheritance, and it belongs to us," Spencer said.

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Re: Donald & Hillary

Post by Stuart X.Hunter » Tue Nov 22, 2016 5:32 pm

TheWarmth wrote:It strikes me as extremely interesting that Trump hasn't spoken out against the white nationalists, yet he's had time to lay into the cast of Hamilton and the media over the past few days. It's clear that based on his silence on the topic and the appointment of Bannon that's he's on board.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/21/politics/ ... index.html

Washington (CNN) — The racism and anti-Semitism of the alt-right movement were on display Saturday in Washington when its members gathered to celebrate Donald Trump's victory.

The president of the alt-right National Policy Institute Richard Spencer's remarks were posted Sunday on YouTube by "Red Ice Radio," which describes itself as "covering politics and social issues from a pro-European perspective." The Atlantic magazine, which is recording footage of Spencer for a documentary they're working on, also published a video of the same event showing audience members apparently giving the Nazi salute.

"Hail Trump! Hail our people! Hail victory!" he declared.

His remarks were filled with racist imagery -- including references to "the black political machines" and Latino housekeepers -- as he bashed Hillary Clinton's minority supporters.

"Her coalition was made up of mutually hostile tribes only united out of a hatred of 'whitey' -- that is to say, out of a hatred of us," Spencer said.

He added that "there are no two parts of this coalition who could ever be in the same room together for any length of time."

"America was, until this last generation, a white country, designed for ourselves and our posterity. It is our creation and our inheritance, and it belongs to us," Spencer said.
Media stoking the fire and all the time reminding those who voted one way that they are stupid, racist, bigots, narrow minded etc etc
We're suffering from it here too
Hate yourself and your identity is the plat de jour
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Re: Donald & Hillary

Post by runcible » Tue Nov 22, 2016 5:55 pm

Richard Spencer wrote: "America was, until this last generation, a white country, designed for ourselves and our posterity. It is our creation and our inheritance, and it belongs to us," Spencer said.
A 'white country'? Eh? So what was it before the white people arrived? Empty?

This just gets worse and worse.

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Re: Donald & Hillary

Post by TheWarmth » Tue Nov 22, 2016 6:59 pm

The media has an obligation to report on this kind of activity. It would be far more concerning is the media WASN'T reporting on it. Both the KKK and the alt-right white supremacists/nationalists are praising Trump. Bannon's asinine website is a breeding ground for it. I fully understand that most Trump voters aren't white supremacists, but this movement is dangerous and needs to be stomped out. Unfortunately, Trump has no interest in doing that, primarily because Bannon is his right hand man. We need a contingent of Republicans to grow a fucking spine and stand up to this crap. They're the ones in charge now.

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Re: Donald & Hillary

Post by Stuart X.Hunter » Tue Nov 22, 2016 9:04 pm

TheWarmth wrote:The media has an obligation to report on this kind of activity. It would be far more concerning is the media WASN'T reporting on it. Both the KKK and the alt-right white supremacists/nationalists are praising Trump. Bannon's asinine website is a breeding ground for it. I fully understand that most Trump voters aren't white supremacists, but this movement is dangerous and needs to be stomped out. Unfortunately, Trump has no interest in doing that, primarily because Bannon is his right hand man. We need a contingent of Republicans to grow a fucking spine and stand up to this crap. They're the ones in charge now.
Seeeeee, exactly what I'm saying. The media hysteria has gripped.
You say on one hand that you understand most Trump voters aren't white supremacists but the rest of your post is catatonic about what to do with these handful of alt.right or kkk Trump lovers.
Like the lady said towards the end of the video...effectively ignore them...they are only piggy backing for 15mins of fame. They are the extreme.
However this should not deter from a conversation that I believe voters here, in America and in nation states across Europe desire to have; that of identity. I think Clewsr maybe quoted something about globalisation previously.
Huge shifts in people are happening; even being targetted.
Where are we heading and better still why are we heading there. People's are confused, uncertain and scared
Without that conversation there will always be opportunity for those who harbour extreme nationalist ideas and philosophies
No one in current established governments wants to have this conversation backed by the mass media at every opportunity enforcing that those who desire such discourse are prejudiced and nasty
Now I don't know about you but when I'm backed into a corner I tend to come out swinging

We're 6 months away from the first round of French elections which I believe could provide a huge reality check for the current establishment

Let's hope something is done before then
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Re: Donald & Hillary

Post by TheWarmth » Wed Nov 23, 2016 12:50 am

The main problem is that one of them now is Trump's Chief Strategist. Sorry, man, but you can't ignore the fact that there's a white supremacist/nationalist headed to the White House advising the President. One of my concerns is that he's going to make the kind of behavior shown in the video I linked to above (Nazi salutes to Trump, etc.) mainstream rather than fringe. I very much disagree with the "let's just wait and see what happens" approach.

I hope you're right. I hope I'm overreacting. I don't think so.

Here's another good article, but maybe I'm just being an alarmist:

http://time.com/4575780/stephen-bannon-fourth-turning/

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Re: Donald & Hillary

Post by simonkeeping » Wed Nov 23, 2016 1:21 pm

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/arc ... pi/508379/

I'm with you Warmth - This is happening. It's a real thing. In 2016.


The conversation about people voting the wrong way etc etc... In the end there wasn't a choice. People didn't trust Hilary, she'd proved time and again that she was 'establishment'. Trump obviously is too but he used what were traditionally left wing narratives (anti-establishment, pushing the fact Hilary was in bed with banks etc etc) to push right wing agenda's. there's two camps who I suspect voted for him.

People who have nothing have got nothing to lose. If you're struggling to put food on the table and someone comes along promising more of the same you'll back the opposition and the other group is people who are yearning for the good old days - Same as in the UK, a return to something that has long since gone. But, rather than discuss real issues and how to solve them it turns into foreigner blaming. This country was great when we were in charge (i.e. white America). we need to take back control.

The rise in racially motivated crime since the Brexit referendum in the UK will almost surely happen in the USA too as these ideas are now out of the bag. The people pushing the agenda over here were a little more British about it too, where as Trump is actually saying these things about women, muslims, ethnic groups, so it must be okay, right?? (My point being is If he can say it this stuff whats stopping the the guy in the the street?) He's in charge and he's saying these horrific things. Once that's happened it's very difficult to put it back in the box it needs to be.

My none-English friends and work colleagues are scared to be in the UK now. I imagine the same fear will grip those in the USA. My friends don't feel welcome, my wife, doesn't feel welcome. Think about that for a second. The rules on residency are now slowly changing and they advise applying for an ID card, You don't 'need' to but it will help later on is the reason given. ID cards, Polish people being attacked in the street and killed because of their nationality, racist graffiti, blaming foreigners for everything - sound familiar?

Fascism doesn't knock on the door wearing jack boots, it creeps in slowly until one day its there, you don't know how it got there, but there it is. And when that happens you are fucked.

You can call it media hype but I truly believe we need to be vigilant both in the USA and in the UK, As Warmth said Trump is backed by white supremacist groups, He's made no effort to distance himself from them or there beliefs and they are not going away, in fact, they are on the rise.

So we need to call it out for what it is, and we need to be vocal about it too as much as we can, It spreads like a disease and we need to stamp it out before it's too late.
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Re: Donald & Hillary

Post by spzretent » Wed Nov 23, 2016 3:06 pm

If there is a sliver of hope lets see who DT asks to be Secretary Of State.
That will say a lot. He may be someone that thrives on conflict within his own cabinet.
So if he appoints Mitt Romney that would be good.
If he appoints Giuliani then we are all screwed. Even worse if he appoints John Bolton.

If Trump doesn't get out in front of the alt.right thing and denounce it quickly it will blow up in his face.
I wonder if he ever anticipated the shit storm appointing Bannon was going to cause? Really scary.

I am convinced some of what contributed to Trump winning was the public outcry of Republicans saying they could not vote for a man like him. Unfortunately when they entered to voting booth that did exactly what they said they wouldn't and voted for him.
That and marginalizing the "High School educated" folks inferring they were stupid. Unfortunately that is most of this country.
And they vote.
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Re: Donald & Hillary

Post by semisynthetic » Wed Nov 23, 2016 7:59 pm

I believe Trump would like Romney to accept the position of Secretary of State.

It seems to me, the obvious "reason" for Trump's win was his rival for the job. Many more Hispanics (300% more than Romney received), voted for Trump this time. The so called "Obama Coalition" did not come out and vote for Hillary. I know (3) Chinese immigrants who were very excited to vote in an election, and they told me they had seen this kind of corruption all their lives, and no way would they vote for Hillary. They liked Trump because he managed to take out 16 Republican Opponents who were in some cases, as these (3) saw it, were simply the "Right Hand" to "Hillary's Left Hand". The lady who has worked for me for 15 years giggled like a school girl, because she had NEVER voted Republican before but "could not vote for that woman". She entered the USA legally, and was not happy to see people who "crossed over the Rio Grande illegally" get to stay and take jobs from (other immigrants) who came in legally; her view is it isn't fair. A fellow who works for our gardener, who is black, said there was "no way he would vote for that lying bitch", and was interested in a higher paying job, and had confidence in Trump. These are just a few real people I know and spoke to, and they were very open about how they would or did vote.

The state I live in is a very "red" one, but the ratio of Trump to Clinton was even greater than I thought it would be. So many people, each with their own reasons and individual situations that Clinton could not satisfy. The minor but loud Republican "no" vote seems a minor consideration either way. I voted down ballot as I mentioned I would. I was ready to accept whoever won, for both were flawed candidates; and the increased divisiveness of the country needed as quick of a "healing" for the good of the Country, forget either Party. For awhile, for a change, for the good of the Nation, many people voted down ballot, because like I believed, it would be an unhappy ~50% regardless who won, (or who lost); so if Clinton won, OK. If Trump won, OK. I'd have given support either way, and hoped the big picture problems would get attention and be handled in a less rhetorical manner than I heard during a contentious Election. No, I don't like Hillary much at all; Trump was not my first choice either; but endless Congressional Investigation worried me for several reasons. It appears Trump won't go after Clinton now that he has won, much like Gerald Ford did with Nixon. Constant bickering and ideological division will continue to hurt the country. Maybe by the 3rd week of January, the boiling over will at least begin to cool. There are too many problems to waste time. I hope for the best.
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Re: Donald & Hillary

Post by BzaInSpace » Thu Nov 24, 2016 12:23 am

Image

Essential reading - although when I read it first back in 2006 it seemed more a dark parable maybe than anything else... :(
O P 8

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Re: Donald & Hillary

Post by spzretent » Thu Nov 24, 2016 1:53 am

You gave that to me in 2015.
I read it earlier this year.
Scary.
I would be happy to pass it on to anyone in the US that wants to read it.
It will freak you out.
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Re: Donald & Hillary

Post by Stuart X.Hunter » Thu Nov 24, 2016 10:49 am

Any mention of a certain Dicky Von Cloudenhove in there Barry?
Aim to do at least two positive things each day

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Re: Donald & Hillary

Post by simonkeeping » Tue Dec 06, 2016 3:58 pm

I wonder how long it will be until we see the same 'buyers remorse' from Trump voters as we saw in the UK with Brexit voters.

He's going to make USA great again, he's the man of the people. He's just appointed an ex-Goldman Sachs banker who profited from peoples misery during the financial crisis.

In the words of Alan Partridge: Sub human scum...
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Re: Donald & Hillary

Post by semisynthetic » Wed Dec 07, 2016 4:14 pm

simonkeeping wrote:I wonder how long it will be until we see the same 'buyers remorse' from Trump voters as we saw in the UK with Brexit voters.

He's going to make USA great again, he's the man of the people. He's just appointed an ex-Goldman Sachs banker who profited from peoples misery during the financial crisis.

In the words of...
I understand what an easy target ANYONE from Goldman Sachs is; there are worse things I personally find distasteful in Mr. Mnunchin's resumé, BUT, I can also see the sense of having someone who knows how and who has proven he knows how to make and use money, who understands how to use the intricacies of currencies, markets and avoiding waste to improve the fiscal situation. I would much rather have THAT sort of person as the Secretary of the Treasury than simply someone I find some sort of "feel good moral acceptance" with. I prefer Generals who know how to deal with the enemies we face, just as I would prefer a world renowned surgeon over a "personally popular", yet an insufficiently talented one for any specific given surgery. I prefer people who know how to get the job done, not just someone that makes me "feel good". Winners winning and doing very well tops any "feel-good-choices" every time.

It puzzles me how often I read of the demand FOR democracy, and then see an endless berating when the unwanted result occurs; Brexit is simply one example. Just as in the USA, where the "anointed" candidate, with collusion and help from the media, her political party, and the happy and fat "elitists" (so called), within EVERY party, suddenly discovers they did not get their way, and had an extended Tantrum over a result they did not like! The hot cocoa, play-Doh and walkout of Academia by a cupcake crowd does not bode well for any sort of democracy; we have our method of determining a President of the United States, and Trump won the election. Never when the candidate I preferred lost did I resort to a cry-in, or kindergarten reversions. Maybe by January 20th, the reality will finally sink in, and Americans can support or NOT the new President based on what happens, instead of a constant drumbeat of morass.
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Re: Donald & Hillary

Post by TheWarmth » Wed Dec 07, 2016 8:04 pm

Remember when he said he was going to "drain the swamp"? The appointment of Steven Mnuchin is the opposite of that.

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Re: Donald & Hillary

Post by spzretent » Wed Dec 07, 2016 8:31 pm

So is that bullshit deal with Carrier. Just ask the employees there.
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Re: Donald & Hillary

Post by TheWarmth » Wed Dec 07, 2016 8:54 pm

spzretent wrote:So is that bullshit deal with Carrier. Just ask the employees there.
Yeah, what a joke. 7 million in tax breaks is how he punishes them for sending 1,000 jobs to Mexico. Clearly an example of one of his fantastic deals.

Here are some facts about his cabinet is monstrosities and how they may affect women's rights:

Domestic violence
Jeff Sessions, Mr. Trump’s selection for attorney general; Tom Price, chosen for Health and Human Services secretary; and Mike Pompeo, the pick for C.I.A. director, all voted against reauthorizing the Violence Against Women Act in 2013, which funds shelters and services for victims of domestic violence, because of amendments extending protections to L.G.B.T. victims.

Minimum wage
Ms. Chao, in her tenure as secretary of labor in the George W. Bush administration, opposed raising the minimum wage. President-elect Trump generally opposed raising the federal minimum wage during the campaign, although he occasionally contradicted himself. Eleanor Smeal, president of the Feminist Majority Foundation, points out that two-thirds of minimum-wage earners are women, who dominate fields with low-paying service jobs.

Abortion
Mr. Trump, who supported the right to abortion as recently as 1999, opposed abortion during the campaign. And so do almost all of his cabinet picks, including Betsy DeVos, his nominee for education secretary; Nikki Haley, for ambassador to the United Nations; and Ms. Chao. Governor Haley signed a bill into law in South Carolina banning abortions from 20 weeks, a rollback from the medically established viability standard of 24 to 26 weeks. Ben Carson, his nominee for Housing and Urban Development, is a longtime abortion foe.

In Congress, Senator Sessions and Representatives Price and Pompeo have consistently voted for abortion restrictions, including a ban on abortions after 20 weeks and against funding for Planned Parenthood and Title X, because abortion is included in these family planning services.

Contraception
In Congress, Mr. Sessions, Mr. Price and Mr. Pompeo all voted against requiring employers to provide health care plans that included contraception, citing religious liberty.

In an exchange that went viral in 2012, Mr. Price scoffed at the notion that any woman could not afford contraception as part of his opposition to the Affordable Care Act, which requires contraceptive coverage without co-payments as well as a range of other preventive services for women. “Bring me one woman who has been left behind,” he said at the Conservative Political Action Conference. “Bring me one. There’s not one.”

As numerous women’s advocacy groups have demonstrated, high co-payments for birth control have been a significant deterrent for many women.

Medicare and Medicaid
Mr. Price proposes offering states lump sums, known as block grants, for Medicaid. These measures could disproportionately hurt women, particularly poor and minority women, since they would end up reducing the amount of federal money going to the states for health care. Medicaid is the main source of health care for low-income women, providing prenatal and maternity care as well as paying for nursing home care, which affects women more because they live longer. Under Obamacare, federal money to expand Medicaid has helped to narrow a longstanding gap in health care between blacks and whites.

Mr. Price has also proposed that the federal government provide a contribution that could be applied to private insurance or Medicare. Some fear those changes would hurt women because they become sicker as they age and would be more likely to exceed a fixed federal contribution.

“They will frame this as flexibility, but it’s about the federal government paying less or making it easier for states to cut back on services,” said Debra Ness, president of the National Partnership for Women and Families.

Child Care and paid maternity leave
One of the few bright spots that women’s advocates see in a Trump administration are proposals championed by Ivanka Trump to require paid maternity leave and offer expanded tax credits for child care. The law now provides only for unpaid leave. Many people working on this issue would prefer paid family leave, to allow men to play a larger role in child rearing. And the child care credits have been criticized as too small and tilted toward higher-income families. But Ms. Smeal said, “Getting something is better than nothing right now.”

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Re: Donald & Hillary

Post by spacemanrich » Wed Dec 07, 2016 10:33 pm

Brace yourselves it could be a rough 4 years. Trumpster is now showing his true character. And I thought Rodrigo Duterte (Phillipines) was a joke. :shock:

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Re: Donald & Hillary

Post by semisynthetic » Thu Dec 08, 2016 2:00 am

TheWarmth wrote:Remember when he said he was going to "drain the swamp"? The appointment of Steven Mnuchin is the opposite of that.
I agree. Mnunchin may be Qualified, but contaminated. He is a swamp creature, we three (+) see it. Perhaps it helps to have creatures from the swamp to know where and how they hide influence, money and corruption.
Who here knows enough level of detail to effectively battle the swamp and corruption in D.C.? I would not hire someone who knew so little they would be ineffectual.
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Re: Donald & Hillary

Post by semisynthetic » Thu Dec 08, 2016 3:32 am

We'll see what happens. I am pleased that I cannot expect to see "bowing and cowtowing" to other leaders. 8 years of leftist Ideals have been less than ideal.

I am at least willing to give the new President a chance FIRST; the same point of view I took had the other contender won. She did not. The method we use in this country works; even IF you believe the wrong person won. In this election, THAT was the only possible outcome. Attempts at Healing of the Country should be more important than a Manic Tantrum of continued discontent. These new people may be of a different point of view; but that does not automatically indicate they are wrong. Many people here will never admit any positive outcomes; and that is unfortunate. If the Democrat Party was so wonderful, they would not have lost so much so often these last 8 years; they kept the Presidency until they put up a candidate that so many people truly loathe for her inability to be truthful and connect with the People.

It took someone never elected to any office to win the highest office in the land. I hope he does well so we will do well. This country has been in a terrible mess for far too long. The same old thing did NOT work. It made the situations worse all over this country. Of course the Philosophy will be different; we needed a change badly.
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Re: Donald & Hillary

Post by spzretent » Thu Dec 08, 2016 1:44 pm

I am all for giving whomever wins a shot but Trump lost the popular vote by nearly 3 Million(and counting) votes.
There needs to be a serious look at the electoral college. This country has changed a bit since the late 1700's.
I find it astonishing that one day after Trump asks Al Gore to his office to speak about climate change he then does a 360 by appointing Oklahoma's attorney general who is currently suing the EPA to head up that very important department. A climate change denier appointed the head of the Environmental Protection Agency. Expect more pipelines, fracking and digging in the next four years. Most likely a relaxing of emissions too.
To take it a step further, Betsy DeVos, the new Education secretary, has never taught and is anti public schools. Just like all these other folks he is surrounding himself with people who want to privatize everything.
The former head of the WWF heads up the Small Business Administration. You cannot make this stuff up.
Not to mention the hawk and the racist he appointed.
So at this point I am very worried and his hall pass has been revoked.
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Re: Donald & Hillary

Post by TheWarmth » Thu Dec 08, 2016 7:44 pm

I'm confused about what we, as a nation, need to "heal" from, other than the epidemic of mass shootings, but I don't see the Republicans lifting a finger on that topic (thoughts and prayers don't count). Obama is more popular than ever, unemployment is ridiculously low and the number of uninsured individuals is at an all-time low. I do not view the last 8 years as a period of time that we need to recover from.

I will say that Trump's weekly outrage at Alec Baldwin makes for complete and utter comedy gold.

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Re: Donald & Hillary

Post by semisynthetic » Thu Dec 08, 2016 11:18 pm

Apparently, absolutely nothing. Everyone is so happy, and the unified state of the Nation is obvious. It is clearly without any divisiveness; I expect mature young people to have cry-ins and resort to kindergarten playthings to placate their extreme happiness over a long, but overall polite exchange of views, some of which appear on this very thread. Absolutely no healing of any kind or anyway is necessary! We are ONE! The Nation is United and Healthy in every possible way. No healing necessary here! The Vibrations of Love and Understanding are the very Music of the Spheres. Oh Happy Day!
Everything is just so hunky-dory; What could I have been thinking! It must have been the waves of Euphoria again!

I am just a little saddened to have missed someone as rock steady and kind as Sir Baldwin delivering frightfully delightful humor, oh well, all the Sharing of Happiness will overcome the loss.
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Re: Donald & Hillary

Post by TheWarmth » Fri Dec 09, 2016 3:28 am

Naturally, there is a large portion of the country that is very upset with the results of the election. The "cry-in" thing has been greatly exaggerated and blown out of proportion.

Semi: You're sort of driving my point home, even though I wasn't really clear what I was getting at in my brief paragraph. Throughout the election, Trump and (every other GOP candidate, for that matter) was running on a campaign based around fear-mongering and the not so subtle suggestion that the country was completely in the shitter. The bottom line is that it wasn't and, for the time being, it still isn't. Note the two items I specified in my previous post, for obvious examples (unemployment / all time low uninsured rate) for starters. Add to that increases in home ownership, a growing economy, rising wages and increased consumer spending. The landscape of America is significantly better than it was under Bush. I know you don't like Obama, but he deserves some credit.

As for being divided, yeah, man ... it's been that way for awhile, but at least Obama was trying to bring people together. His message is one of tolerance and love. Does that sound goofy? Maybe you disagree, but as far as I'm concerned there is no denying that Trump is absolutely tearing the country apart with his blatant racism, xenophobia and anti-woman stances (I've mentioned all of this before probably more than once, but I won't hesitate to keep bringing it up because it's a big, disgusting problem). All of the sudden, every prick with chip on his shoulder about terrorists feels completely comfortable berating anyone who isn't white. It's real. It's happening. It's being reported on (but every media outlet spews LIES, right? - I love how this card is played throughout the comments section of every social media discussion I encounter).

Trump and his gang of unqualified morons are going to make the existing divide worse than it already is and I believe they are largely responsible for it widening exponentially over the past year. Unfortunately, at this point, though, we don't really have much choice but to "give him a chance" and then call him out on every dumb move (or Tweet) he makes. Obama certainly wasn't given any free passes. I hope he figures out a way to install Merrick Garland before Trump takes over, but at this point, it's clear that obstructionism works. Maybe we'll just stick with 8 justices indefinitely and see how that works out.

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Re: Donald & Hillary

Post by semisynthetic » Fri Dec 09, 2016 4:29 am

It is my opinion that enough of the Citizenry were trying desperately to tell the Leadership of BOTH sides of the aisle that things are simply too fucked up! Too many pointless and costly Regulations, a "health care" program that is like Swiss cheese - filled with hidden ways to increase prices over time, most certainly for MEDS; the Drug Companies and Insurance LIKED the ACA; (until it began to fail). Trump was one of the few who bothered to hear and react to all that so MANY Tried to tell a deaf Leadership who had theirs already.
And,
I read the last Post twice; I felt no thrill up my leg. If you genuinely believe what you have written, then that's great. We do each have the right to our own opinions. I would like each one of us to live in the World we prefer. I know that I will; and in doing so, I will make no demands or beliefs that I expect others to follow. A live and let live life is possible only when one side does not expect the other to give up what they believe and wish to do. I never intended to change or to try to change a single perception; I did share my opinions. There was no Happy Winner for the country; Hillary cannot tell the truth or tell of much accomplishment outside of staying outside of prison for the decades of genuine scandals. Trump will not be an Ideologue; but more of a pragmatist, but surely more conservative than what we have seen for years. The Pendulum tends to usually swing from extremes; but I believe the rhetoric will soften, and it is possible that Trump will not decide to annex the Sudatenland, or any number of such extremes. As for Obama, he could have done so much more of real good work for minorities; but, since he is an Ideologue, he just simply could not say what may have made millions of young people turn a different direction. That singular point was a great loss to many who will never have heard a minority President tell them how gangs are nowhere, how each person has a right to live and excel, and not just exist; that being an American and working hard to build your best possible life by yourself and without dependence upon any Party or anything less than hard work. I heard President Obama comment on television last night reverting to the same old racial line of the South, when that is fringes of fringe groups, and not the general populus. But, his Ideology seems to force this view, long out of date here. Maybe because my personal background is one with persons of every color and from around the World; Academia meant I could continue to learn about subjects that interested me; and color was not a hindrance to me or anyone who worked with me. But I saw athletes used and abused, and made friends with people who are now dead mainly because of where they lived. If there were ever pawns on a Campus, it is the athletes. I have been and continue to be surprised how upset so many people are over this election. I cannot imagine how if Trump OR Clinton would have won it would have made my world turn as upset down as it has for so many. There is a strange immaturity that I have never witnessed after an Election. The very idea that Final Exams be put off and all the other silliness because one side did not get their way is a troubling reality. We are not so weak as to wail so. Meanwhile, the media will never be as kind to Trump as they were to Obama, and we will continue to have the chance to excel at our best pace. It is within each of us what World is created. I am glad you believe in something, and if it varies from my views, so much the better for the variety we all bring, rather than some collective hive mentality. We each make our own way as best we can with what we accomplish on our own. I do not expect Big Brother to save me from myself, not when I am doing fine, thank you. I hope the next years Class of 2017 will be much more independent of thought and action than I saw this year. Take Care.
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Re: Donald & Hillary

Post by spacemanrich » Fri Dec 09, 2016 3:03 pm

I think that this thread will have legs. Look at all the posts and he hasn't takened office yet ! This thread can go on for four years ( hopefully not more than that ) with his blunders, missteps, mistakes, etc. Can we impeach him now ? :shock:

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Re: Donald & Hillary

Post by semisynthetic » Fri Dec 09, 2016 4:50 pm

You are quite right, Rich;

Years could be wasted on such a Thread. So enjoy yourself. I do like to share opinions, but this SITE is so much more interesting for the Music, which matters a great deal more to me; and I REALLY enjoy reading what others have in mind or have heard, and sharing pieces that have some sort of appeal to me that I believe others may enjoy.

With the Holidays and Family and Friends visiting, offering so much to look forward to, it makes (these) discussions on this particular Thread ænemically pale by comparison - and with the advent of the New Year and so many other things to do, I don't feel much need to engage in this.

I was clear, I think; both candidates were, in my opinion, flawed, and many people agreed with that. I was ready to support or accept either candidate, even Clinton, who I find "deplorable"; but Trump did wipe out the entire field of professional politicians, probably not because he is "adorable" but because the Citizenry, (or at least enough of them), have had enough of the same old things that get us nowhere. My thoughts are that since he did win, to at least give him a chance. If he is terrible at it, 2020 is not so far away to replace him. I thought the same of Hillary. So enjoy trashing whomever you have the time and emotion for. Who knows, Trump may do SOMETHING right. As for myself, I have months of recordings I have not yet heard, places to go and good friends, (many on this SITE), to discuss much more enjoyable things than this sewage-fest.

But, if people wish to continue on with it, have a blast. Maybe I will give it a quick look in a few months. Frankly, I am having a Wonderful time now that I am home again, and with several volumes of antiquarian books just arrived I want to read, my non-schedule is pretty full. There are so many things to do, that this Posting will likely end it for me on this Thread.

I wish you and Everyone
A VERY MERRY CHRISTMAS, A HAPPY HANUKA, and a WONDERFUL, HAPPY HOLIDAY SEASON!

semi. - But, it appears that nearly everyone would rather be miserable. That is your prerogative.
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Re: Donald & Hillary

Post by rapideye » Sat Dec 10, 2016 12:29 am

You might support Trump, Semi, but you were never going to support Hillary. You would've supported Hillary as much as you you've supported Obama.

It's been a mental year. Brexit, Trump and I've just heard that the 'Mary Chain will be releasing soon. Heard the single - not great. Presenter said it sounded like Spiritualized. I thought Primal Scream.

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Re: Donald & Hillary

Post by semisynthetic » Tue Dec 13, 2016 6:18 am

Regardless of your insinuation, it is true I would have given her a chance; it is also true you are not prescient.

There is a great deal of difference between blindly supporting a candidate and then refusing to share any disagreements. I voted for a Republican Senator, and the message in a letter I sent to him that very day is NOT what one could call "lockstep agreement", quite the opposite. Do not attempt to set, for others, parameters that matter not, nor attempt to read to the letter exactly what I would do, as your suggestion, and the conclusion you reached was not thought out; a concise (ad hominem) insistence saying I was dishonest in my comment to give any support to Clinton was ill founded, and unfair. I have, over time repeated how I would support the winner; take what came; a comment that was shown in my vote - (since I do usually vote Republican).
Primarily,
This election is the very FIRST time I have voted ONLY down ballot, because I did not like Trump, AND I did not like Hillary. If I had voted FOR Trump, that would be a de facto vote against Hillary - but I did not do that. I answered truthfully the question about a topic no one seemed to want to touch - Until the "wrong" candidate won. I see yet another good reason to stop handing out trophies to kids for "existing" at little league sports and other events. Someone must win; and simply showing up (in a few select juicy areas will no longer be enough), as demonstrated in this Election.

But, there are a variety of other reasons, many of them listed much earlier. I would have been far more open minded than what I see in the Media of both sides; I would have supported Hillary, (had she won), as the President Elect, and then President, leaving open my right to openly disagree with plan or action; not run wild in the streets because any one candidate lost; whether the one we were told often, would "certainly" win, or the opponent. But, Hillary lost.

It would be so much better for the Country to accept the Election Conclusion, however, than have some Tantrum ad infinitum. I believe that the "certain" infallibility of her campaign, the "certainty" spewed out as to the outcome did adversely affect her choices of how to act, and which States to "ignore". She ignored several states for weeks and months like Michigan, while her opponent fought on. Her overconfidence, was, at the very least, a factor in the Election outcome, i.e., she lost.

Reviewing the many unpleasant and rude responses and actions also helps explain it; she is not a very likable candidate, but she felt somehow "entitled" to the Presidency. The mainstream media tended to "rarely repeat", (if even show), her ruder moments. It was often that she treated "her own people" as so called deplorables, and not just Sanders or Trump supporters.

I thought Election Day might never come; as if Time stopped; and now, January 20th slowly ticks closer while professional politicians continue still to meddle and muddle. Along with (?)journalists(?), and their biased language, and (still) skewed "analysis", are beginning to learn something about why a Trump victory was possible, and how the Media have helped to throw gasoline on the divisiveness in the USA.

There are other videos that share news and opinions, but the content I personally liked, was tainted by the "glee" of defeating (both candidates), and this messaging, despite useful info, is not what I believe or wish to propagate. This video, from a cable network I do not like as a rule, and rarely watch, were at least straightforward in an attempt to understand an opposing point of view even if their biases were still evident. It is a start. Real Journalism is Rare; and in this video, a glimmer of light is seen. I give them credit for what they shared here. The REAL and only answer to "was the right person Elected", will take time to see if, in this case, Trump, will ultimately produce for the American People.

...
This is a complete video put out by MSNBC; the
1st video I placed here was an edited version.
"Everything is a Poison; it is the amount or degree that separates one Poison from another"
Paracelsus

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Re: Donald & Hillary

Post by Hedspace » Tue Dec 13, 2016 10:22 pm

no offence but Hilary Clinton is a warmongering lying untrustworthy c*nt...backed by no less than 9 out of 10 of the world largest arms dealers during the campaign...nuff said

Im not for a second a trump supporter and if you ask me there was no one to vote for in that farce election (bar sanders in the run up) however I did breathe a sigh of relief when she didnt get in. As far as the other narcissist is concerned lord knows where that shit is going but Biff towers in Back to the future 2 springs to mind. :?

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Re: Donald & Hillary

Post by runcible » Thu Dec 15, 2016 9:07 am

Hedspace wrote:. As far as the other narcissist is concerned lord knows where that shit is going but Biff towers in Back to the future 2 springs to mind. :?
I read an article that stated categorically that Biff was based on Trump. In fact the portrait behind his desk in BTTF2 was taken directly from a painting in Trump's office.

Can't share your 'sigh of relief' - more a gasp of horror.

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Re: Donald & Hillary

Post by Hedspace » Fri Dec 16, 2016 11:37 pm

runcible wrote:I read an article that stated categorically that Biff was based on Trump. In fact the portrait behind his desk in BTTF2 was taken directly from a painting in Trump's office.
Thats gas :D I was wondering why the likeness is uncanny!
and there was me watching bttf2 way back when, thinking those hoverboards would be around well before, if not in my lifetime but at least before that dystopian paradox that made us the viewer, shudder, should Biff ever really attain that kind of power in the real world

I apologise for the use of the word c*nt in a previous post but if the hat fits

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Re: Donald & Hillary

Post by The Dr » Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:28 am

“You're not Dostoevsky,' said the citizeness

'Well, who knows, who knows,' he replied.

'Dostoevsky's dead,' said the citizeness, but somehow not very confidently.

'I protest!' Behemoth exclaimed hotly. 'Dostoevsky is immortal!”

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Re: Donald & Hillary

Post by semisynthetic » Sun Jan 22, 2017 8:48 pm

I played the "which founder were you game", resulting in "Thomas Jefferson" as the winning composite. There were 3 specific, similar questions that were worded in such a way I thought I'd see what answer THEY'd produce; the answer was, "Benjamin Franklin".

I wonder how long the writer of that algorithm or "spin the wheel" hit upon 29 questions being a likely maximum number that enough people would have the attention span to bother with it? Wouldn't a greater number of data points likely yield a more informative view into the (specific) Founders? At least people might learn more than they likely already knew. Good. That alone was worth the game, anyway.
"Everything is a Poison; it is the amount or degree that separates one Poison from another"
Paracelsus

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Re: Donald & Hillary

Post by The Dr » Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:18 pm

i got john adams- pretty happy with that 8)
“You're not Dostoevsky,' said the citizeness

'Well, who knows, who knows,' he replied.

'Dostoevsky's dead,' said the citizeness, but somehow not very confidently.

'I protest!' Behemoth exclaimed hotly. 'Dostoevsky is immortal!”

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Re: Donald & Hillary

Post by semisynthetic » Mon Jan 23, 2017 4:29 am

MODLAB wrote:I have no hatred. My hatred lies in the American system and how the presidency is elected. It's flawed and not geared towards a peoples majority.

M
I expect that people of differing beliefs and backgrounds to also have disagreements on certain points; but there are very sound reasonings that support the methodology for deciding the Presidency of the United States; but here, and on the previous page, I read from those who live in the UK, a close ally and source of many friends for me on this SITE alone; but to call a decent person "insane" because they follow a Tenet of certain religions regarding how they view the age of the Earth, and to "hate" the system as outlined in a Beautifully and Brilliantly constructed document like our Constitution by those whose long-lived practice of Church and Ruler reverting back to the "Divine Right of Kings" does strike me as Ironic at the very least.

Just an observation.

I have no reason to "hate" all of these centuries of UK History or dislike a Queen I have respect for; besides, it is a different type of Country here in the USA; the size and diversity I dare say are not necessarily well understood by many who were born here! Most certainly this is best seen when their thoughts are driven primarily by Ideology, where "thought" often ends.

To be blunt, I would expect many of those now WITHIN the UK to be more upset by their own Historical outcomes than I can even Imagine! But this is mere conjecture on my part.
"Everything is a Poison; it is the amount or degree that separates one Poison from another"
Paracelsus

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Re: Donald & Hillary

Post by runcible » Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:44 pm

semisynthetic wrote: but to call a decent person "insane" because they follow a Tenet of certain religions regarding how they view the age of the Earth, ...does strike me as Ironic at the very least.

Just an observation.
Come on Semi. That is ridiculous. Maybe substitute the word 'insane' for 'deluded'. I mean, isn't oil one of the things that is important to the American economy? And er... how old is oil? Well, older than Mike Pence believes the planet is.

That's more than an observation - it's a fact. (and not an 'alternative fact')

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Re: Donald & Hillary

Post by semisynthetic » Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:35 pm

And I agree with you; (except I have believed for decades the Earth is much older than accepted ages to date; Science, a sort of religion, has been my bread and butter for decades). But, certain religions have their own, perhaps stranger view of this; but yet a peaceful religion is much less a threat to Liberty and Freedom than a Continual History of Monarchy.

Your selective and obvious editing does not help your cause regarding "Truth". If I see "sanity" questioned or invoked, what machinations would lead me to change this and use "delusion" or any word other than a mentioned doubted "sanity"?

It is comical what you "edited out" to create, well, something so very dubious, so tangential of what I clearly referred to, that this "edit", as created, is very much like "an alternative truth", something that is in reality, not true at all.

You obviously know very well what I find ironic (for you deleted it!) - and it is NOT Mr. Pence's religious beliefs. Very sad. Very sad indeed. Knock the USA Constitutional Methodology for the Presidency on one side, and mocking a mild mannered
fellow's set of perimeter beliefs on "the age of the Earth" while totally ignoring your own fine country's use of CREATING a State Church (for useful purposes) once upon a time, while invoking a Tenet of "The Right of Kings", with a Monarchy still in place, THAT IS WHAT was excised and edited to reread as something completely and totally unrelated to the original.
Last edited by semisynthetic on Tue Jan 24, 2017 2:13 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Donald & Hillary

Post by semisynthetic » Tue Jan 24, 2017 12:02 am

I do agree with your considerations on at least the ORIGIN of oil; a natural product created over many millions of years that propelled the world from dim candles and pestilence and death brought on by cold winters and hot summers to a 24 hour day to use as we each see fit.

Forty years I've spent, in part, designing and synthesizing medications now in use around the World, made almost entirely using petroleum byproducts as "tinker toys" assembled with syntheses in such a manner to be biologically active and helpful.

Your computer is composed of petroleum byproducts. Most of what you own was made from petroleum byproducts; from Aspirin to Recordings; if it was not made from this Natural Product, it was likely used in the varnish of woods, and likely used as the fuel to move all of your belongings to your home, unless you are lucky enough to own a pair of Oxen and a good wagon.

These too are facts, for the UK and the USA alike. To believe that the UK exists without oil is an another excellent sort of example I think, of your fascination with "alternative facts"; or more simply, something that is not true.
"Everything is a Poison; it is the amount or degree that separates one Poison from another"
Paracelsus

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Re: Donald & Hillary

Post by runcible » Tue Jan 24, 2017 8:30 am

semisynthetic wrote:
It is comical what you "edited out" to create, well, something so very dubious, so tangential of what I clearly referred to, that this "edit", as created, is very much like "an alternative truth", something that is in reality, not true at all.
You are reading too much into this editing. You were clearly referring to me when you mentioned Pence (a 'decent fellow'? What a joke! This is a man who thinks people can be 'converted' from being gay! Hardly 'decent' in my book). I simply included your quote on the guy's religious views to make a point. I questioned whether someone who holds one of the most powerful jobs on the planet can be considered suitable if he can actually believe the earth is a few thousand years old. In my opinion that's more than deluded and that view is just nuts. To examine every word someone uses - insane, nuts or whatever - and take it in the literal sense is ignoring day to day use of the English language.

And what on earth are you on about when you say I believe the UK exists without oil? I don't remember saying that!

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Re: Donald & Hillary

Post by The Dr » Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:38 am

runcible wrote:
You are reading too much into this editing. You were clearly referring to me when you mentioned Pence (a 'decent fellow'? What a joke! This is a man who thinks people can be 'cured' of being gay! Hardly 'decent' in my book). I simply included your quote on the guy's religious views to make a point. I questioned whether someone who holds one of the most powerful jobs on the planet can be considered suitable if he can actually believe the earth is a few thousand years old. In my opinion that's more than deluded and that view is just nuts. To examine every word someone uses - insane, nuts or whatever - and take it in the literal sense is ignoring day to day use of the English language.
surely his beliefs, whether i agree or not, are his beliefs and if he thinks the world is a few thousand years old but provides health care, gay rights, women's rights etc then surely that is more important than his beliefs.

if he works agains the said things and more, then we can see the character of the man. whether we like it or not, trump won and we have to hope that things don't go as bad as we fear, although reading about a republican having an arguement with a lady about trump and then trying to win the arguement by grabbing her between the legs concerns me


anyway, what is trump's vision of america? to me he makes it sound like mcdonalds! quick, easy, efficienct (powered by imigarants behind the scenes 8) )
“You're not Dostoevsky,' said the citizeness

'Well, who knows, who knows,' he replied.

'Dostoevsky's dead,' said the citizeness, but somehow not very confidently.

'I protest!' Behemoth exclaimed hotly. 'Dostoevsky is immortal!”

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Re: Donald & Hillary

Post by runcible » Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:58 am

The Dr wrote:
surely his beliefs, whether i agree or not, are his beliefs and if he thinks the world is a few thousand years old but provides health care, gay rights, women's rights etc then surely that is more important than his beliefs.

:shock:
Reminds me of that episode of Frasier where Frasier backs a local politician who then informs him he was once abducted by aliens. It's Ok for him to believe in that stuff as long as long as he provides health care etc.? I mean - come on... (curiously the chances of there being aliens out there is far more likely than the earth being 5,000 years old!)

And sorry - did you say gay rights? Mike Pence? Seriously? Take a look at what the man really thinks:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/mik ... 21bbc8ff9b

I am concerned that someone who holds serious power is as deluded as this. And you're not?

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Re: Donald & Hillary

Post by The Dr » Tue Jan 24, 2017 1:40 pm

runcible wrote: :shock:
Reminds me of that episode of Frasier where Frasier backs a local politician who then informs him he was once abducted by aliens. It's Ok for him to believe in that stuff as long as long as he provides health care etc.? I mean - come on... (curiously the chances of there being aliens out there is far more likely than the earth being 5,000 years old!)

And sorry - did you say gay rights? Mike Pence? Seriously? Take a look at what the man really thinks:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/mik ... 21bbc8ff9b

I am concerned that someone who holds serious power is as deluded as this. And you're not?


relgious belief is a personal thing and i get concrened when people use another's belief to discredit him. he could beleive in pixies for all i care as long as he is good at his job. ah, there lies the rub. his policies on ay rights etc are terrible and he should not in any way be allowed in power

there is an arguement that just because people down the road are homosexual it does not mean it has to have anyhting to do with you- it does not affect you. likewise if the man down the road believes in the bible then how does that affect you?

plus if one does read the bible then there is a lot stuff in the bible about feeding the hingry, healing the sick etc. if a politician claimed the world was x thousand years old but created equal rights, provided clean renewable energy, took women's issues seriously would people still be standing there going 'o he thinks dinosaurs are a hoax, he is unfit for office'? i'm sure they would. liberalism seems to be anti-religious. lots of the people who created the world so to speak were masons, tesla, who made the 20th century possible fell in love with a pidgin (his words). would you rather get rid of the tesla coil and AC just because you think the guy who invented it could be seen as being deluded?


as far as mr pence goes i think his policies are horrendous and this is what politics should be about- policies not personalities. some of the presidents used to dress in women's clothing, the darling kennedy was a womaniser but ultimately what they should be juged on is policies not personality, so to answer your question yes, he can beleove in whatever he wants in private as long as his policies are good and as far as relgion in politics, maybe if more people read the bible and subscribed to the compassion and love therein politics would be about politicians working for the best of the people and the people not judgung politicans for their relgious believes, no matter how 'deluded' they may think they are...
“You're not Dostoevsky,' said the citizeness

'Well, who knows, who knows,' he replied.

'Dostoevsky's dead,' said the citizeness, but somehow not very confidently.

'I protest!' Behemoth exclaimed hotly. 'Dostoevsky is immortal!”

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Re: Donald & Hillary

Post by angelsighs » Tue Jan 24, 2017 3:30 pm

The Dr wrote: there is an arguement that just because people down the road are homosexual it does not mean it has to have anyhting to do with you- it does not affect you. likewise if the man down the road believes in the bible then how does that affect you?
.
because peoples religious beliefs (especially of the fundamentalist type) can affect their whole world view and their opinions on various issues.
a little bit of benign 'spirituality' or superstition is basically harmless (even if just as silly to a black hearted atheist like me) but when you start denying basic, verifiable facts about the world, it's worrying.

whereas whether somebody fancies men or women, and what they get up to in the bedroom, has little bearing on the outside world.

plus.. if someone thinks the earth is only a few thousand years old, it means they are someone who rejects OVERWHELMING evidence to the contrary. it means their other policies could also reject facts, evidence, etc. we are already seeing this trait strongly in this administration!

facts should be the baseline we all work from. we've got enough scientific methodology now where there are some solid, immutable facts we should all be able to agree on. interpretation of the facts.. yes, that's largely up for grabs.

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Re: Donald & Hillary

Post by runcible » Tue Jan 24, 2017 3:55 pm

angelsighs wrote: plus.. if someone thinks the earth is only a few thousand years old, it means they are someone who rejects OVERWHELMING evidence to the contrary. it means their other policies could also reject facts, evidence, etc. we are already seeing this trait strongly in this administration!
Nicely put Dave. Couldn't agree more.

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