The Libertines

[TheWarmth]

SpacemanRob:
”Apologies from the UK to The Warmth for wasting his money on the Liberitnes, now even more shite without the charisma and personality of Pete. Quite scary how a man can become a rock n roll star without the matching musical personality. Pete = Sid but with less conviction and more consumerism. Ready packaged rock n roll shite........ Scary but the limp and pathetic commercialism of Carl mentioning Pete in every interview makes you want to mash his head. Sad Sad Sad. However still preferrable to much of the shite about and all of Smile.”

I’ve avoided this for some time … the Libertines are yet another example of a great band being dismissed by “underground” music lovers due to overexposure, plain and simple. How on earth they could be described as “ready packaged” is beyond me. I saw them on Saturday night in Chicago and they were superb. I really was not expecting them to be so damn good live. The rhythm section was tremendous and is greatly underappreciated. I have not seen a drummer play as solid and heavy as Gary Powell in quite some time.

In my opinion, Carl is the heart of the band. He’s the one who had the balls NOT to allow his fucked up friend to come on the road with them. Moreover, they’re playing blistering shows and that’s gotta be tough for him without Pete there.

Has anyone here actually heard What A Waster, Don’t Look Back Into The Sun, Vertigo etc. etc.???

I suppose my comments will be easily dismissed by those that equate cynicism with cool, but I felt the need to post my thoughts anyhow.

[SpacemanRob]

The Warmth

What hurts is a band that potentially rocked but decided consumerism was more important than rock n roll joy.
Carl maybe gifted but he has singularly failed to support any interview or gig without mentioning the 'hardship' of his relationship with Pete.
Nothing is about supposed elitism but more the dismantling of potential. Nobody should believe hype and nobody should support a band that ignores a fucked up member but chooses to use the situation for their own financial ends.
Irony(shite word as always) dictates that the new Babyshambles record is better again. Anger is an energy.

Rock on....

[TheWarmth]

The Warmth

What hurts is a band that potentially rocked but decided consumerism was more important than rock n roll joy.
Carl maybe gifted but he has singularly failed to support any interview or gig without mentioning the 'hardship' of his relationship with Pete.
Nothing is about supposed elitism but more the dismantling of potential. Nobody should believe hype and nobody should support a band that ignores a fucked up member but chooses to use the situation for their own financial ends.
Irony(shite word as always) dictates that the new Babyshambles record is better again. Anger is an energy.

Rock on....

So you think the Libertines are raking it in??? You’ve got to be kidding. If they’re making any money at all, it’s in touring. If they didn’t tour, then they wouldn’t be able to afford to be a band at all and there would be no “rock n roll joy.” The band wouldn’t exist anymore. It’s Pete’s own fault that he’s put himself in the position he’s in and it seems very apparent that the decisions that the rest of the band have made are ones they HAD to make in order to keep from dissolving (not to make money).

Did it ever occur to you that the reason Carl mentions how difficult things are now is because things ARE difficult??? Besides, all the journalists want to talk about is Pete and the problems he has (what about the problems he has CAUSED). As far as “the dismantling of potential,” goes … what the hell are you talking about? The fact the Pete is the fucked-up one does not automatically make him the heart and soul of the band (obviously, based on the blinding set I saw them play without Pete).

[SpacemanRob]

Fascinating... 'Its Pete's own fault'... I wish i lived in your simplistic world where everything was black and white and any grey would be attacked and destroyed instantly.
Fascinating ' they have to take about Pete'... I wish i lived in your simplistic world where everything was black and white and any grey would be attacked and destroyed instantly.
To anybody with a modicum of understanding of reality and life your comments would be at best surreal, at any other time insulting.....
I have used the c word, c(C)onservative, before and each time it scares me but each time it is real. Nobody fucks up for fun.
COME ON - If you have enjoyed the first album, the subsequent chaos of the second and the singular dynamics of the band you would realise that we hope for more than Carl just doing ok and the drummer can play.
I am no defender of the Libertines but undertand that just maybe they could have worked. However the small minds and piss-poor conservatism of insular jocks will ensure that thier tainted legacy will not diminish.....

Rock on....

[TheWarmth]

“Fascinating... 'Its Pete's own fault'... I wish i lived in your simplistic world where everything was black and white and any grey would be attacked and destroyed instantly.”

If you can’t handle your drugs, you shouldn’t take them. He’s been given so many chances … he broke into Carl’s flat, stole from him and pawned whatever he stole for drugs. After he got out of jail Carl was waiting for him and he was immediately reinstated in the band. Seems like they’ve been more than forgiving so far … doesn’t it?

”Fascinating ' they have to take about Pete'... I wish i lived in your simplistic world where everything was black and white and any grey would be attacked and destroyed instantly.”

I assume you mean “they have to TALK about Pete,” but still, this sentence still wasn’t in my post, so I’m not sure what you’re getting at. What I was trying to say is that journalists constantly question Carl about Pete and the ongoing problems … might that have something to do with the fact that Carl always seems to be discussing those issues?

”To anybody with a modicum of understanding of reality and life your comments would be at best surreal, at any other time insulting..... “

I don’t know you and you don’t know me. Why are you judging me? This is not personal. I have nothing against you. I just don’t agree with your opinions about the Libertines.

“However the small minds and piss-poor conservatism of insular jocks will ensure that thier tainted legacy will not diminish.....”

I find little to no meaning in this statement. If you are calling me a conservative, small-minded and a jock, then I ask you again … who are you to judge me and how is it relevant to this friendly discussion?

[SpacemanRob]

Many of my points refer to the ridiculous over-stated fanaticism of the British press(even now including the Sun - the worst tabloid ever) than at you. It seems that the press are desperate for any form of charisma in the current music scene and have used the Libertines as their benchmark. After Keane, Coldplay and Embrace etc this nearly makes sense but the papers seem incapable of looking in the right places.
Something seems so contrived on the issue of Pete's drug abuse and subsequent sacking from the band. For a start it seems faintly riduclous that anybody can be sacked for taking drugs in a rock n roll group. Equally the band and new manager(Alan McGhee) were aware from day 1 of his habit but chose to roll with it until the completion of the album. The timing of the sacking ensured maximum press coverage and ready made conversations for any interview. Then the debate on which drugs are ok and which are not seems to me totally bizarre. To throw someone out of a band for a smack habit but to overlook Carl's alledged cocaine abuse must be at best insincere.
Finally i am sure Carl could choose to ignore Pete and his habit in the interview situation if he chose. It just seems very convenient that when he does discuss it it ensures ready-made headlines. Cheap and tacky.
All this and the album is badly produced/mixed and seems made up of a few half-decent tracks extended over a full album.
I also have to add that any album or track that bears similarities to Chas n Dave immediately makes me want to destroy it. The same applied to Blur's Parklife. Maybe being a born and bred Londoner has meant that i have had too many nights in shite pubs with drunk idiots thinking they can play the piona and sing in amusing Mockney styles.
In summary they seem an average band too interested in consumerism and not interested enough in playing rock n roll.

Rock on....

[BzaInSpace]

Hey Rob ... anger is an energy.

The best bit of The Libertines story is the recent one

"...a song The Libertines never intended to be released has found it's way into the public domain... lyrics that bitterly attack Carl and Alan McGee ... controversy..."

They were most puzzled by how it was released...

I wonder...

[clewsr]

I'm not particulalry interested in the Libertines - but didn't he steal from his bandmates and that was why he was sacked? So he wasn't sacked for taking drugs, more the consequences of his actions from taking drugs.

in that case it wouldn't be hypocritical for the rest of the band to be high as kites, so long as they weren't ripping each other off.

[will this do?]

Remember as well, that having a well publicised (understatement) crack habit (and drug related conviction/criminal record) is not the best way of getting permission from US government agencies for work permits ect ect necessary for the furtherance of the bands' career. That's another good reason for not having him in the band now the studio work is over (Has he been sacked? Or temporarily relieved of performing duties?)


Digression:
(another good reason why the Cocksucker Blues wasn't suitable for release - the Stones had enough trouble looking for them, without them looking for it...by the way, Jagger had enough different accents over the years, didn't he?)

In any case, is there not a difference between drug use, and drug use which prevents an individual playing for the team?

I said it before, but I've never read the sun, and don't get (or 'get') the NME anymore, and so the media shitstorm happens very much in the background for me. I therefore quite liked the first album, but have heard that the 2nd one is more of the same - I won't waste my money on it then. I've only seen them 'live on the telly', but it looks to me like they'd be about 100% better live than on record.

In any case, call it lack of principles, but I'd rather not have avenues of potential pleasure ruled out to me by the happenstance of prevailing taste. Going blindly with the flow or constantly lashing out are just the same different sides of the same filhy coin. You're playing their game whatever you do.

Keep a straight edge. Find the pubs where the pearly kings aren't.

[jason_godman]

Unfortunately I haven't got time to read this whole thread but the original comments of spacemanrob incensed me so much I had to post.

I totally agree with the warmth about people thinking that just because they've been in the press they've somehow compromised their integrity. Being constantly trumpeted by the nme is not their fault and the stuff that has appeared in the press about pete has mostly been him selling his soul for drug money (i.e doing interviews and pouring his heart out for £500).

I have more but I have to go. More later.

[BzaInSpace]

...Duran Duran have reformed - again.

Like the Libertines, but more theatrical.

[jason_godman]

Right then,

Firstly, Pete has not been sacked from the band but it was felt by Carl and the rest of the band that Pete's current situation was too volatile for touring to be a good idea. Carl felt that it was his duty to carry on with the touring despite this so that when Pete gets better, there is a band to come back to.
Unfortunately, Pete's a sensitive (paranoid) soul that think his best mates hate him and are cruelly plotting his downfall.

If you have actually heard any of these interviews with Carl, you'll hear how genuinely cut up he is about it. Some of the better interviews (see steve lamacqs' documentary for radio 1) have moved me to tears. The worst thing is the irrational view that Doherty takes on events. For example, at a libertines photo exhibition that Pete turned up to post 'sacking' to play some songs, Gary, the drummer also came and embraced Pete onstage. He then spent the rest of the gig watching from the side and grinning from ear to ear. In said Lamacq interview, Pete said that Gary turned up and laughed at him throughout the gig. Paranoia indeed!

Now Carl obviously does a bit of Coke but Pete is the only one who has said that it's a problem. Bear in mind Pete's current mental health and his tic for tac attitude at the moment and the credibility of this claim seems dubious.

The suggestion that Pete's drug problems are contrived are just patently ridiculous and I'm practically spitting bile at the suggestion right now (if only you could see me). Using a smack and crack habit as a marketing tool is fucking absurd! Think about it! Especially if you consider the people that you claim they are marketing themselves to (14 year old nme readers and "I fucking love the queen" sun readers). Plus, his current exclusion from the band has meant cancelling prestigious live dates such as Glastonbury. If you think Pete not being in the band is a positive marketing tool you are completely off the mark. Also, I agree that some of the interviews that Pete has done are cheap and tacky and are a product of him selling his soul for drugs (as in, the money made from the interview to fund drug habit). Carl has never 'gone to the papers' to sell his side of events and is only interviewed regarding promotion of the new album. He does answer questions posed to him by interviewers regarding Pete.

Also, to say "it gives them something to talk about in interviews" is fucking absurd. Have you seen the two of them together in interviews? They are like some sort of comedy double act. So sharp and charismatic. I have never seen them plod through an interview talking blandly of release dates etc.

On the subject of the album being badly produced etc I say this. It was recorded in a very similar vane (is that the right spelling?) to Amazing Grace. i.e. Songs written in the studio and recorded within a few takes and with minimal production. It is like a snapshot of them at that time. They have countless (literally hundreds) of amazing songs that haven't been recorded. A lot of them are put on the internet for download by Pete himself.

Finally, the libertines are absolutely electric live. Having seen them countless times and being a bit of an obsessive (I've been to a gig of about 25 people in Pete's hovel of a front room) I can say that it never gets boring. It is also a massive task for Carl to go out on his own without the interaction that Pete and Carl have onstage to promote the new album. He did a sterling job of it when I saw them at Reading but in no way was it the easy choice for him.

Sorry if I haven't articulated myself very well but I had a lot of stuff that I wanted to spit out quickly.

[SpaceLine]

we don't get the nme over here so I've not heard much about these 'hotly tipped' guys, but I did hear a rumor that the very reason this peter character is hitting the crack pipe is because it's the only way he can listen to his own tunes. again, just the rumor, don't slay the messenger.

[assoc.]

my 50 pence...

this isn't me being cynical, the press coverage or me knocking them for not being 'underground'.

surely the most important thing is the music? And I think the libertines make terrible music.

I wouldn't attend one of pete dohertys contrived 'guerillia' gigs even if he was holding it in my own front room.

mick jones - producer of the year at the Q awards???...tsssk what exactly did he produce?

[will this do?]

That's fine. I like it, but not *that* much...

So I probably think they're 'overrated' (sigh).

[BzaInSpace]

The worst thing is, at the end of the bullshit trail there's a poor bastard who is being cynically manipulated - for sure.

Whoever is doing all their PR/Sleeping with the NME should be... fired.

I'm pretty certain the band don't want their shit all over the papers - but somebody somewhere knows controversy = ca$h so here comes another commercial martyr.

I think of other bands who have or have had equally, er 'dramatic' page 7 shit going on... but keep it (mostly) away from the press

You know who I mean

[TheWarmth]

my 50 pence...

this isn't me being cynical, the press coverage or me knocking them for not being 'underground'.

surely the most important thing is the music? And I think the libertines make terrible music.

I wouldn't attend one of pete dohertys contrived 'guerillia' gigs even if he was holding it in my own front room.

mick jones - producer of the year at the Q awards???...tsssk what exactly did he produce?

Just to put things in perspective, albeit my own perspective … in comparison to Amazing Grace, The Libertine’s Up The Bracket is a pure genius. I can’t imagine how anyone could say that that album is “terrible,” or that the Libertines’ songs in general are at all bad. The new, self-titled Libertines album is a slight disappointment and I agree that Mick Jones didn’t do a very good job (I wish Bernard Butler would have done it instead … his work on What A Waster and Don’t Look Back Into The Sun is tremendous), but it’s still as good as Amazing Grace. Moreover, the songs from that album come off amazing in the live setting.

[twinside]

i saw the libertines 2 or 3 months ago in melbourne

they were shit

that guy should not be allowed to sing in a band, he has no voice

they sounded like a third rate clash

and the clash are shit too

[TheWarmth]

i saw the libertines 2 or 3 months ago in melbourne

they were shit

that guy should not be allowed to sing in a band, he has no voice

they sounded like a third rate clash

and the clash are shit too

Thanks for that insightful post.

You probably have an issue with Carl’s stylistic approach to singing as opposed to his voice, which is actually quite pleasant and tuneful.

[a beautiful noise]

i dunno warmth, i think his voice live at least is a bit, lets say rough. thats being nice.


i am not a fan nor do i dislike the libs. i just thought a few of the tunes were catchy, nothing monumental or worthy of all the prasie they are receiving. but good for them, take what you can get and roll with it.

but babyshambles on the other hand, thats just fucking pointless.


xxxshonnxxx

[TheWarmth]

Really, Shonn??? I saw the Chicago and NY gigs for this tour and thought the vocals were great at both (as was the band as a whole).

Haven't heard Babyshambles, but am curious. Musically, I think Pete desperately needs someone to keep him in check (how did Don't Be Shy even make it onto the new album???).

[a beautiful noise]

but pete wasn't singing at these dates, or was he?


xxxshonnxxx

[TheWarmth]

but pete wasn't singing at these dates, or was he?


xxxshonnxxx

No, Pete's not on tour with them. Was Pete at the show you saw??? I thought you were referring to Carl's vocals. I think Carl's got a great voice and live he was spot on both nights. I can imagine that Pete has his share of off nights (especially as far as vocals are concerned). Now we're steering back into the drugs discussion.

[SpacemanRob]

The massive irony is that the new Babyshambles single and indeed the album(God bless Soulseek) are far superior to the Libs.
Seems the inebriated and unfancied(fucked junkie loser) Pete could eclipse, a quite pedestrian ouput, as a solo artist and still be fucked.
Gives your faith in rock n roll and i hope to see Alan McGhee, Carl, Sun, Q magazine(pillars of shite Britain) crying soon. Further irony that once Alan gave up drugs he could no longer chose any decent music. Poptones = shite.
However i can almost feel your need(The Warmth) to eulogise over a great new band and often i feel it as well. But in this case i think you have chosen the wrong target and should find something else.
Man, turn the lights off and enjoy Elliot Smith. A genius much deserving of the accolades used for the Libs
Rock on....

[TheWarmth]

The massive irony is that the new Babyshambles single and indeed the album(God bless Soulseek) are far superior to the Libs.
Seems the inebriated and unfancied(fucked junkie loser) Pete could eclipse, a quite pedestrian ouput, as a solo artist and still be fucked.
Gives your faith in rock n roll and i hope to see Alan McGhee, Carl, Sun, Q magazine(pillars of shite Britain) crying soon. Further irony that once Alan gave up drugs he could no longer chose any decent music. Poptones = shite.
However i can almost feel your need(The Warmth) to eulogise over a great new band and often i feel it as well. But in this case i think you have chosen the wrong target and should find something else.
Man, turn the lights off and enjoy Elliot Smith. A genius much deserving of the accolades used for the Libs
Rock on....

I'm quite curious now about that Babyshambles album. I'll check out Soulseek. What's the title of the album?

On the other hand, I'll be really suprised if Babyshambles takes off ... Pete seems to be turning up for about one out of every four gigs

I'm just defending the Libs, as they've been getting so much shit recently. I don't think they're going to change the face of music or anything like that. I just happen to find the records pleasing.

I've had the new Elliott Smith for a while now and have been enjoying it quite a bit.

[TheWarmth]

Here's an excerpt from an interview I found online from August of '04. I think it goes a long way in proving how sincere Carl is about that band and Pete and that the whole thing isn't just some silly publicity ploy. Note the fact that Pete's Thailand rehab treatment was paid for by the band:

There's been talk of in-band fighting. Was that the whole band?

"Just me and Pete really, but everyone else was involved."

How are things with Pete now?

"Well, I've said my piece and I'm waiting for an answer, really."

Are there any plans for Peter to do interviews for the album?

"Yeah, I think so."

Will you be doing any new band pictures?

"Probably not with Peter at the moment, no."

When was the last time you spoke to him?

"Before he went to Bangkok."

It must have been a real blow for the band to have him go to rehab and then for it to fail?

"Yeah, it was a real nasty f*cker. It was gutting…"

What was the regime like at the monastery in Thailand?

"Well, contrary to the tabloid's f*cking ridiculous claims, apparently you get treated like a prince. The only thing they request of you is that you do this weird vomiting thing, which you do every day, which apparently makes you feel really good. That's just a small part of the process as far as I'm concerned. All the stuff about being whipped is absolute bollocks.

"I know a guy who was out there – Tim Arnold, Dot Cotton's son – he's the one who sorted it all out. He told me all about it and said it was nothing like what it said in the papers. A lot of the locals go off to Bangock to try the local smack apparently."

Did The Libertines finance his rehab?

"Unfortunately yeah."

Would you consider doing that again?

"If I had any fragment of hope that he would last."

How long did he last?

"About three days…"

He seems to relish the attention?

"He loves it."

How do you feel about Pete becoming tabloid fodder?

"It makes me sad. I'm gonna keep my trap shut. I'm not gonna give the tabloids a voice about it. "

So it's his move next?

"It's pretty simple, what I've said…"

Does he hang out with a 'bad crowd'?

"In my opinion, yeah, but I don't really wanna talk about it."

He's doing a solo tour with Dot Allison next week…

"Apparently."

What's it like playing without him in The Libertines?

"Emotionally, it's quite difficult. We've got this geezer keeping Pete's seat warm. He understands what he's doing and he plays good and he understands the songs. But emotionally, it's a f*cker. But we have to get on with it and sonically try to pull it off."

How have the gigs been going without him so far?

"Well I don't like doing it, but I don’t have a choice. I've gotta do it. It's important to me. I think we play good. We can get on with what we're doing, but I don't see us writing or recording another album as The Libertines if Pete doesn't sort his sh*t out."

So that will be it for The Libertines?

"Yeah, right now that seems the case."

Do you think Pete has the will to sort himself out?

"I hope so. I've got endless faith. Hope springs eternal…"

[The Sprawl]

It seems pretty obvious why the Libertines are the 'hottest' band in the country - the whole Carl and Pete freakshow(which is basically what it is: come and and stare at the hardcore drug user) makes wonderful copy for the redtops. It's a more exciting and illicit take on the Richey Manic story, whereby a band comes into existence, a desperate UK music press falls upon them, salivating at the inevitable forthcoming increase in sales, but no-one really cares. Then comes the career defining tragedy and the press really perk up, their noses twitching at the prospect of rock-n-roll drama, the prospect of a band that might mean something to their readers and the guarantee that when the rock-n-roll hall of fame pop-pickers come along, searching for this generation's entrants, this particular band will be exempt from preterition purely on the basis that 'they've been through a lot'.

I can understand it in its current context, after all, a slew of personality vacuums like the Strokes, The Vines and Starsailor have been clogging up a scene that is, to all intents and purposes, dead, then a rather charming, rather eccentric, but entirely lost little boy turns up and asks to be loved. So people love him. They ignore his flaws - the patchy music, the flirtation with the dark side of the law - and they hold him very tight, they smother him, and tell him everything he wants to hear, and he keeps doing what he's always been doing, only more so. Eventually he starts thinking that his habit and his music career form some kind of symbiotic relationship, that one can't exist without the other.

It looks to me like he's frightened people'll lose interest if he leaves the drugs alone, which is a terrifying suspicion to have, but not an unfounded one. He's seen how famous he's become since the tabloids ghoulishly latched onto him, and he knows they wouldn't even look at him if he didn't live an appropriately bacchanalian lifestyle.

Every interview I've read with Pete has been heartbreaking because I see someone who is doing something he loves but is terrified that it'll all disappear. I've read interviews in which he attributes his success to his relationship with white and brown and implies that if he ever cleaned up his muse would disappear. That's fucked up.

The NME is Pete at the moment and, whilst I'm not crazy about anything he or the Libertines have done so far, it's at least nice to know that some people are genuinely excited and enthused by something contemporary.

It might not carry with it the glamour of the needle, it wouldn't be easy and it's certainly not ideal, but it might inject(apologies) a modicum of stability into his life if he got himself on either Buprenorphine or Methadone and confined his white habit to coke rather than crack. It might make touring difficult but I'm sure his prescribing doctor could make some concessions.

[twentysixdollars]

the glamour of the needle

Ha! I'm sure he'll appreciate the fatherly advice, Sprawl. If only there had been someone to hold my hand and tell me to switch to coke, I might have made something of myself.

...The Libertines record is OK. I had it passed along to me by my young cousin; it errs on the side of the formulaic but there's a pulse there, which is more than can be said about the Strokes. (He gave it to me because I've latterly been on a Dolls kick.) However, I find Peter's rhetoric and lifetstyle rather pathetic. He seems someone so enamored with the hoary seventies underground cliche, yet so desperate for stardom, that he self-destructs stupidly and spectacularly. He has talent but I would stop short of wishing him success, especially on the road he's on now.

[jason_godman]

$26- get your hands on the first album 'up the bracket' if you haven't heard it. It's a fine piece of work and superior to the follow up in my opinion.

[The Sprawl]

You are a funny little man $26 sometimes. I think I said meth or subutex might help iron out the bumps, and that it might be marginally preferable to be a coke addict rather than a crack addict. I didn't say either would change his life, or even improve it to any huge degree. Methadone helped me and hypothetically I'd rather be using cocaine over crack, although I can't say I find either of them particularly to my taste.

I'm sure you've had a wonderfully successful life, just please don't tell me about it again, it's getting a bit embarrassing.

Hey Jason Godman, is the first Libs album really better than the new one? I was pretty nonplussed by Up The Bracket but I thought there was promise, for example the title track and a few others. Apparently, at least from the reviews I've read, the second is a massive improvement but I don't trust UK music press reviews anymore, especially after buying the 9/10 rated M83 album.

[TheWarmth]

Godman is right. Up The Bracket is better than the new, self-titled album. The overall sound is much better and the songs are stronger. The new album has it's moments (Can't Stand Me Now, The Saga, Last Post On The Bugle, The Ha-Ha Wall), but I find it inferior to the first. The UK press just gets wound up when something new comes up.

[will this do?]

...I'm sure you've had a wonderfully successful life, just please don't tell me about it again, it's getting a bit embarrassing ...

Please, feel free to keep telling us how wonderfully clever YOU are though The Sprawl.

Personally, I find myself agog (to the point of moistness) at the merest mention of your Eponym, which is fast becoming a byword for erudition and/or verisimilitude wherever discriminating people meet.

[The Sprawl]

Thanks! Kisses!

[The Sprawl]

Thanks Warmth, I'll avoid the new one.

Can anyone recommend a contemporary band that's actually worth listening to? The Franz Ferdinand album I borrowed was ok, there were some good songs, and I'm all for idiosyncratic influences, but when the biggest British band's main ambition is to be as good as Sparks it's a bit depressing - they were a decent pop band made interesting by their marvellous facial hair but once in a while I'd like to listen to a band that has aspirations beyond making a disco full of students dance to a crap paean to a bloke with a boring name.

I've heard good things about the Concretes, The Duke Spirit, Secret Machines, Joy Zipper but I'm wary because it's so long since I heard something that made my heart somersault - the last songs that really knocked me sideways were Rated X and Ballad Of Richie Lee. That's over a year ago. Am I meant to choose from The Strokes and Jet? The Hives and The Datsuns? Or from rubbish and rubbisher?

I mean, a band that names themselves after a song by Wings?! How could they be anything other than a bunch of sweaty, hairy apemen in waiting? Anymore bands like Jet, with their heartbreaking ballad Cold Hard Bitch, and the entire music scene will regress to a state of primitive knuckle scraping flea picking stupidity - the Kings Of Leon do their bit to reinforce the Deep South stereotype, Jet wander in and out of interviews moaning about political correctness and how much of an effort it is to call a woman actor an 'actress' rather than an 'actor', Jack White writes a song called You've Got Her In Your Pocket(or whatever it is), the most insidiously sexist song since Under My Thumb... They don't even have the good grace to write interesting music - at least Under My Thumb was a guilty pleasure because of the wonderful melody.

I fell in love with the Libertines, I just wish that I liked their music as much as I like them. There's a brilliant Libertines b-side(chorus of 'no no no, yeah yeah yeah, etc...) that was so full of joy, and made me so happy, and it alerted me to their huge potential, but it was only one song. I always wanted to like Star Trek, mainly because it was always on when I got back from school, and its presence in the TV schedule invariably meant I'd have to avoid the TV for an hour. It's the same with the Libertines - I wish I liked them because they're just everywhere and it'd make things so much easier.

I'd really like to hear from someone who heard a new band or album that totally blew them away. That's what this place is for - it's like a great big interview with Jason - full of reference points you've never heard of that are well worth investigating. I'd also like to know that the music scene isn't as bleak as I've made it out to be.

Sorry to ramble, but it irks(what a great word) me and I'm typing from under a thick fug of opiates.

[jason_godman]

The sprawl- the b-side you're refering to is called 'The Delaney'. In my opinion they've got loads of classic B-sides too.

[sly saxon]

Ahhh.

Is it the over exposure that (ahem) irks you?

For myself, it is precisely that which upsets my perception of a lot of perfectly decent music.

By over exposure, for clarity, I don't mean coverage in the music press, or airtime on music tv, or radio. I mean the endless fucking repetition of the same old pap on things like: (deep breath) TV shows aout decorating, tv shows about property speculation tv shows about marriage guidance, holidays, makeovers, holiday makeovers, trailers for tv shows about decoration, makeovers, football, football highlights, adverts for products which also sponsor football...you know the ones, imagine the ideal line up for Chelmsford Festival 'I heard one of their songs in the car' local radio friendly pap-which-isn't-boybands kind of crap for people who don't like music...

Now some of it is crap, no doubt, but a lot of quite decent songs get eaten up by this process, and once you've heard them in that context, you never hear them the same way again. It isn't even effective to the programme makers anymore, surely. Remember the frisson of cool you got from hearing Fools Gold playing under a goals roundup?

Too busy to type more.

Back soon.

[The Sprawl]

Yes, Sly Saxon, eventually a song you love will have been shoe-horned into an episode of some bullshit reality program one time too many and you'll realise you're utterly sick of it. It upsets me that even the most inane television program can appropriate a tiny bit of counterculture cool simply by using a certain song at an appropriate moment. Has anyone seen Morvern Callar? Soulless dogme-lite stuff, but you could feel the self-satisfaction oozing from it as it squeezed Can, Aphex Twin, etc...onto the soundtrack. It was so ridiculously contrived, like they got the soundtrack first and built a film around it(which isn't necessarily a bad idea) - in one scene the central character was walking through a supermarket whilst Some Velvet Morning played, as though, through music, the director could make even the most mundane daily routine seem significant and dramatic.

On the other hand I remember watching(I don't know why, I think it was very late, and I might have been a bit high) an episode of Night And Day, a doomed ITV soap from a few years ago, in which one of the characters had an argument with his spouse. He was left on his own in the room after she stormed out, and I heard a familiar chord sequence chiming away quietly in the background before Jason's voice - "All I want in life's a little bit of love to take the pain away" - drifted from the TV. It was a wonderful moment, and the programme took a step up in my estimation(even though this was entirely down to the bloke who chose the music) so sometimes even the most inadvisable confluence of music and tv can turn out alright.

The use of Waterfall in the National Lottery advert is, however, fucking awful.

[SpaceLine]

Has anyone seen Morvern Callar

Yes, and it was 2 hours of pure pain. I still can't believe I sat through it all.

[a beautiful noise]

wow i liked that movie, alot. sure it was a bit slow in pieces, but overall well worth watching.



xxxshonnxxx

[a beautiful noise]

to whomever it was that asked for some new bands try these:

the concretes
M83
Explosions in the Sky
the dirtbombs


thats a few different styles right there.

[TheWarmth]

Hey Sprawl,
Why don’t you try checking out some of the following:

The Veils ~ The Runaway Found (four or so songs from this were produced by Bernard Butler. It’s a powerful and soulful album. Check it out.)

A.C. Newman ~ The Slow Wonder (very poppy and utterly genius. I cannot stop listening to it. He’s the lead singer of the New Pornographers, although I’ve never heard any of their stuff, so I can’t vouch for it)

Bark Psychosis ~ Codename: Dustsucker (this is very reminiscent of Talk Talk’s Spirit of Eden. It’s pretty cool … very atmospheric)

Sondre Lerche ~ Two Way Monologue (Lerche is from Norway and his songs are great … very cinematic, but not in a corny Disney way (like Mercury Rev’s All Is Dream was).

Kings of Convenience ~ A Riot On An Empty Street (I’ve mentioned this before on this board. I think this album is genius … so seductive and restrained, but not boring at all).

Also, forgive me for harping on this, but check out anything by Super Furry Animals if you haven’t already.

[SpacemanRob]

Wolf Eyes????!!!!
Why Not????!!!! Great songs, great music, great sound & shite image(3 out of 4 can't be bad).
Cover of Wire, great downloads, exclusive 10'????!!!!
What more do you want????!!!!
Dive in and ignore the shite so far.....
Keep looking man.....

[BzaInSpace]

Hey Sprawler - don't get hung up about the damn haircut bands - theres a stack of great records out every month - heres a few off the top of my head.

{There's nothing interesting about facial hair - unless it's Crosby.}

RTX - Transmaniacon
JEAN GRAE - This week
CEE-LO GREEN Is the Soul Machine
COMETS ON FIRE - Blue Cathedral

Only heard part of Comets but nice bit of space rock boogie - I Love To Boogie
Anybody heard anything by M.A.S.S? Any good?

I hear there's a nice Nirvana box set out soon

[The Sprawl]

Thanks to everybody for the suggestions, lots of interesting stuff, although a distinct lack of new bands with interesting facial hair(I know there's always Devendra Banhart, but he's a bit too awful for my tastes.).

I bought the M83 album on the strength of Run Into Flowers and a review in the NME that said it was the best heartbreak album since Ladies and Gentlemen. Thought it had some good moments but overall a little too bombastic and cold.

I do have everything by the Super Furries, maybe the best writers of pure pop of the last decade - Northern Lites, Ice Hockey Hair, Pan Ddaw'r Wawr, She's Got Spies, Gathering Moss - all wonderful.

Sondre Lerche and Comets On Fire sound interesting and I like what I've heard from the Concretes.

Nirvana box set could be good, but if You Know You're Right was the best unreleased song then it follows that the rest will be even worse, which doesn't bear thinking about.

[BzaInSpace]

I suspect some of it may be familiar with those that have heard the 'Outcesticide' boots - with remastered quality.

HOWEVER - I have heard repeatedly that there is also lots of home demos, rehearsals, 'outtakes' that has been heard by nobody - often with good reason.

Some bands can inspire interest in such shit though - and I think Nirvana is one of them.

I need to see a tracklist.

Will we get the legendary 'Another Rule'?

Or the lost intro to 'Love Buzz'?

Or maybe The Rio Tapes?

...

...I love the second side (record) of SFA - 'Radiator' ... mellow forever.

[Starfish]

There's an American band called Sneeze who got my attention for swimming against the flow a couple of years back.
They featured some bloke who used to be in a quite well-known band (that's helpful, I know) but the best description I can give (- and is there any other way of trying to nail down a sound without using reference points? -) is to say it reminded me in parts of Camper Van Beethoven and King Missile/John S Hall.
They also had one number - Doctor Of Love, very deadpan - which had a middle eight identical to the one in the Modern Lovers' "Girlfriend".