Well everyone I've got through the Spacemen 3 book, and overall its proven to be a good read. I really enjoyed the stuff when they toured Europe. The photos are really good, as, if like me your a bit of an obsessive about the Spacemen then you probably think you have seen all available images so its nice to see pictures that have come from Sonics private collection.
The sections in the book dealing with the break up of the band make you feel for Sonic but probably beacause Jason has had no input at all by the looks of it so it's all a bit one sided really, with lots of ...he said this then he said that...kinda stuff, not anything from the horses mouth.
Overall a good read but not exactly a definitive Spacemen book as non of the main protagonists have wanted to participate in it i.e Jason and directly Sonic, although it feels as though the author has had a bit of time with Mr Kember.
I've finished the Spacemen book.
Moderators: sunny, runcible, MODLAB
I haven't received my copy yet but look forward to it. On the other hand I've exchanged plenty of correspondence with Pete K on the book recently. In essence it was a lot easier for Jason to refuse to take part - he can criticise and distance himself from the project. At least the others took time to get involved and I know Pete K took considerable trouble to assist where he could. I suppose it was inevitable that the final account wouldn't meet with universal approval. Pete Bain's intense bitterness is particularly unpleasant in Pete K's opinion - he isn't really sure why Pete B is so blatantly aggressive as a great deal of what is reported is apparently 'malicious and untrue''.
I encouraged him to write his reactions here but he simply said he was happy for me to repeat anything he'd said. So...:
'It seemed very strange to see peoples time-warped opinions printed as fact. I told Erik that Jason had played many of Pete Bain's bass lines on Perfect Prescription, something that was only done out of necessity - but Pete B had never known previously & was furious (to be fair, Jason would play my parts too if he could do it quicker - which often he could - but I was always in favour of that). He comes over a lot like most bass player books I've read (Noel Redding + Bill Wyman come quickly to mind) - they are inevitably consumed by bitterness. Pete seems to have somehow overlooked having worked with/for me until fairly recently - something I chose to finish - and apparently justifiably.'
'In general - I have the dubious pleasure of having my life quantified by people who mostly resented me & rarely saw the modicum of vision it takes to create music like Spacemen 3... ...I'm sure the fansites will be chattering away with folks opinions soon enough. That will be a treat, I'm sure..........'
'The image was more tarnished here by the vile press around Recurring. I have a feeling that this book will be harmful. I remember Spacemen 3 with great fondness & it was with great sadness that I read the book in part - I couldn't enjoy it - to find most ex members only 'remembered' bad things. Spacemen 3 was very much like the famous story about Solomon & the two mothers claiming the baby. Except there appear to be more mothers! I'm sure I dont have to re-count that moral, but it was like that it seems. It was often a really hard struggle to do anything, anywhere - but Jason & I put momentous amounts of effort into it...................... I'm as proud as ever about it & regret only that it should've left such an apparently disfunctional situation. There is much spicing in places too, i.e. in one place it uses vague English to say I "took a pop" at Johnny Mattock, implying I hit him (never happened) when in reality I merely made a catty comment. It's surprising how things can be twisted. To me 'taking a pop' is hitting, but of course it can well be argued it means merely 'making a dig' . I don't think thats how it reads either. And that remark came from Pat Fish! Admittedly an ace story teller, but also it seems sucked into suggestible exageration for the benefit of print. In close reality it doesn't bother me, but I'd be a liar to say that I don't care on some level what people think of me, and for that to be based on untruth or twisting is particularly unappealing. So it goes...........'
I encouraged him to write his reactions here but he simply said he was happy for me to repeat anything he'd said. So...:
'It seemed very strange to see peoples time-warped opinions printed as fact. I told Erik that Jason had played many of Pete Bain's bass lines on Perfect Prescription, something that was only done out of necessity - but Pete B had never known previously & was furious (to be fair, Jason would play my parts too if he could do it quicker - which often he could - but I was always in favour of that). He comes over a lot like most bass player books I've read (Noel Redding + Bill Wyman come quickly to mind) - they are inevitably consumed by bitterness. Pete seems to have somehow overlooked having worked with/for me until fairly recently - something I chose to finish - and apparently justifiably.'
'In general - I have the dubious pleasure of having my life quantified by people who mostly resented me & rarely saw the modicum of vision it takes to create music like Spacemen 3... ...I'm sure the fansites will be chattering away with folks opinions soon enough. That will be a treat, I'm sure..........'
'The image was more tarnished here by the vile press around Recurring. I have a feeling that this book will be harmful. I remember Spacemen 3 with great fondness & it was with great sadness that I read the book in part - I couldn't enjoy it - to find most ex members only 'remembered' bad things. Spacemen 3 was very much like the famous story about Solomon & the two mothers claiming the baby. Except there appear to be more mothers! I'm sure I dont have to re-count that moral, but it was like that it seems. It was often a really hard struggle to do anything, anywhere - but Jason & I put momentous amounts of effort into it...................... I'm as proud as ever about it & regret only that it should've left such an apparently disfunctional situation. There is much spicing in places too, i.e. in one place it uses vague English to say I "took a pop" at Johnny Mattock, implying I hit him (never happened) when in reality I merely made a catty comment. It's surprising how things can be twisted. To me 'taking a pop' is hitting, but of course it can well be argued it means merely 'making a dig' . I don't think thats how it reads either. And that remark came from Pat Fish! Admittedly an ace story teller, but also it seems sucked into suggestible exageration for the benefit of print. In close reality it doesn't bother me, but I'd be a liar to say that I don't care on some level what people think of me, and for that to be based on untruth or twisting is particularly unappealing. So it goes...........'
Last edited by runcible on Fri Nov 19, 2004 7:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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helterskelter111
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Guest
I mentioned on this board a while ago that I interviewed Sonic this summer for a magazine - the magazine still hasn't been published yet but I'm assured it will be soon... Anyway, he talked a little about the new Spectrum album...
Yes, I’m in the middle of recording a new LP. It’s very much a guitar/organ-based thing for me. There’ll be some electronic elements but it is quite a different disc from ‘Forever Alien’. Some of the songs are more upbeat, though not all. It’s very much in the vein of stuff I’ve done before. I don’t think it’s as odd as ‘Forever Alien’, probably much closer to some of the mid-period Spacemen 3 and the ‘Highs, Lows And Heavenly Blows’ record. No release date yet. I hope to get it done this year, but many musicians are flung to the far corners; Randall Nieman from Detroit, Roger Brogan from LA. I believe Mr. [Will] Carruthers may lend his bass skills – but he’s in Toronto, so …
My priority is to make a great record, foremost. I’m still deciding on a label outside the UK, so things are all on course
I'll let y'all know when the magazine finally gets to see daylight....
Dan
Yes, I’m in the middle of recording a new LP. It’s very much a guitar/organ-based thing for me. There’ll be some electronic elements but it is quite a different disc from ‘Forever Alien’. Some of the songs are more upbeat, though not all. It’s very much in the vein of stuff I’ve done before. I don’t think it’s as odd as ‘Forever Alien’, probably much closer to some of the mid-period Spacemen 3 and the ‘Highs, Lows And Heavenly Blows’ record. No release date yet. I hope to get it done this year, but many musicians are flung to the far corners; Randall Nieman from Detroit, Roger Brogan from LA. I believe Mr. [Will] Carruthers may lend his bass skills – but he’s in Toronto, so …
My priority is to make a great record, foremost. I’m still deciding on a label outside the UK, so things are all on course
I'll let y'all know when the magazine finally gets to see daylight....
Dan
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sly saxon
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Will Carruthers says this:
"the book ....hmmmmmm
Well, apart from a fairly firm conviction that books should only be written about bands when everyone concerned is dead , I think Erik has done a good job considering the problems he faced . Poor bloke ...stuck in the most surreal guesthouse in Rugby,living on cheese sandwichs, attempting to interview notoriously drug addled fuckups in varying stages of hating each other ,about events that happened yonks ago.
I think he had some problems with my "regional accent ".
I would never , ever , use the word symbology and I have never,to my accurate recall, taken drugs .
There are twenty three historical and factual errors in the book ....a cheese sandwich to the first person who spots them all."
to all his readers.
"the book ....hmmmmmm
Well, apart from a fairly firm conviction that books should only be written about bands when everyone concerned is dead , I think Erik has done a good job considering the problems he faced . Poor bloke ...stuck in the most surreal guesthouse in Rugby,living on cheese sandwichs, attempting to interview notoriously drug addled fuckups in varying stages of hating each other ,about events that happened yonks ago.
I think he had some problems with my "regional accent ".
I would never , ever , use the word symbology and I have never,to my accurate recall, taken drugs .
There are twenty three historical and factual errors in the book ....a cheese sandwich to the first person who spots them all."
to all his readers.
It's all happening!
...And back to Pete:
"I have to say, I don’t remember what my comments to you were, but this seems like as accurate a depiction as any.
In many ways Will was the genius of the latter Spacemen 3. Yeah - we know who got the credit, but in reality he was a much more pivotal figure than is realised. I know without him the band would've probably imploded much earlier & with far less impression being made. He was also one of the most rambunctious, inventive, intelligent, infuriating + loveable members of Spacemen 3. When I listen to that stuff over, it’s his bass that invariably stuns me. I don’t remember a bass player as musically poignant since John Entwistle. And to memory he made it all appear like second nature.
Whilst Spacemen 3 was a complex grouping of people, I have many good memories of those times -something I feel little reflected in the book. I felt it hard enough to get what other people had mistakenly spouted corrected than actually being able to focus on the real value of the band.
In relation to Will & symbology (is that a real word ?) - I certainly wasn’t including him in my biblical analogy - I believe I mentioned Solomon's dilemma . . . Quite the reverse.
I too feel for Erik . And I contend that he did mean well, even if IMO he was a little misguided. I guess if you want to believe things, it'll become self-fulfilling. I admit for my part, that whilst I made up no stories or told no lies - indeed most time was spent refuting them - I certainly withheld information I know to be intrinsically important to some aspects of Spacemen 3, but which I feel are not necessarily anyone else's business in my lifetime.
I think the only thing I could question in Will's review of it was the amount of factual inaccuracies. More like 270 than 27..............oh dear.... It’s like surreal Chinese whispers........................ The thing about Pete Bain drinking tea outta Jack bottle is ridiculous - and a good example of not letting a good story lie (sic). The bit about me hating people who drank is strange. I refute that. I just hate drunks. And I’ll tolerate a good drunk too. How could I be friends with Pat (drinks like a . . .) Fish, Goff or Jason . All of whom are big drinkers.
I think on balance it's transparent to see that a few of Erik's major sources had angles to sharpen & axes to grind. The elaboration on common or garden band happenings to make things seem more weighty/important/ quintessentially 'Spacemen 3' is very prevalent. God only knows why, but there is a distinct whiff of hindsight & the human wish to order things & make them breakable into 'understandable' cartoons."
"I have to say, I don’t remember what my comments to you were, but this seems like as accurate a depiction as any.
In many ways Will was the genius of the latter Spacemen 3. Yeah - we know who got the credit, but in reality he was a much more pivotal figure than is realised. I know without him the band would've probably imploded much earlier & with far less impression being made. He was also one of the most rambunctious, inventive, intelligent, infuriating + loveable members of Spacemen 3. When I listen to that stuff over, it’s his bass that invariably stuns me. I don’t remember a bass player as musically poignant since John Entwistle. And to memory he made it all appear like second nature.
Whilst Spacemen 3 was a complex grouping of people, I have many good memories of those times -something I feel little reflected in the book. I felt it hard enough to get what other people had mistakenly spouted corrected than actually being able to focus on the real value of the band.
In relation to Will & symbology (is that a real word ?) - I certainly wasn’t including him in my biblical analogy - I believe I mentioned Solomon's dilemma . . . Quite the reverse.
I too feel for Erik . And I contend that he did mean well, even if IMO he was a little misguided. I guess if you want to believe things, it'll become self-fulfilling. I admit for my part, that whilst I made up no stories or told no lies - indeed most time was spent refuting them - I certainly withheld information I know to be intrinsically important to some aspects of Spacemen 3, but which I feel are not necessarily anyone else's business in my lifetime.
I think the only thing I could question in Will's review of it was the amount of factual inaccuracies. More like 270 than 27..............oh dear.... It’s like surreal Chinese whispers........................ The thing about Pete Bain drinking tea outta Jack bottle is ridiculous - and a good example of not letting a good story lie (sic). The bit about me hating people who drank is strange. I refute that. I just hate drunks. And I’ll tolerate a good drunk too. How could I be friends with Pat (drinks like a . . .) Fish, Goff or Jason . All of whom are big drinkers.
I think on balance it's transparent to see that a few of Erik's major sources had angles to sharpen & axes to grind. The elaboration on common or garden band happenings to make things seem more weighty/important/ quintessentially 'Spacemen 3' is very prevalent. God only knows why, but there is a distinct whiff of hindsight & the human wish to order things & make them breakable into 'understandable' cartoons."
I haven't finished the book, but an early eye-opener is the Dreamweapon gig report.
Having enjoyed it's hypnotic trance for many years, I always imagined the Arts Centre to be filled with cross-legged stoned kids - not drunk and aggressive town yobs.
The voices you can make out don't sound very angry. An illusion shattered.
Having enjoyed it's hypnotic trance for many years, I always imagined the Arts Centre to be filled with cross-legged stoned kids - not drunk and aggressive town yobs.
The voices you can make out don't sound very angry. An illusion shattered.
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mh
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I've just finished too, and it was a cracking read even if it didn't really add much to what we already know (and even left out some stuff I remember from first time round) about the part people are probably most interested in (the split). Must say, nobody really comes out of this one covered in glory. I'm not gonna post any of my own speculations here, cos that's just what they are - my own speculations. The Spacemen were a great band and they deserve to rest in peace, so I prefer to remember the good times and happy days.
I'm with you mh - a great band who deserve the respect they now command. On a final note from Pete he did send me a very short message that read:
I was thinking about what we were discussing about the 'multi-faceted' truth of Erik's Book, and I remembered a nice quote from Marlene Dietrich's director in "The Blue Angel", Joseph Von Sternberg:
'There are not just two versions of the truth, but rather a thousand; and doubtless none of them is really exact.'
I guess that sums up my most benign feelings about the book.
Quite nice I thought.
I was thinking about what we were discussing about the 'multi-faceted' truth of Erik's Book, and I remembered a nice quote from Marlene Dietrich's director in "The Blue Angel", Joseph Von Sternberg:
'There are not just two versions of the truth, but rather a thousand; and doubtless none of them is really exact.'
I guess that sums up my most benign feelings about the book.
Quite nice I thought.
dreamweapon book
will it be released in america?
Came in to work this morning to find my copy sitting on my desk. Hallelujah. 11 months and countless phonecalls to the publisher later...
Will be spending the next week in a stuffy recording studio, so this should provide the perfect read during the spare hours... The only question being can I hold out until then...
Will be spending the next week in a stuffy recording studio, so this should provide the perfect read during the spare hours... The only question being can I hold out until then...
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..
I finished the book too. I actually found it mildly depressing to be honest-kind of sad in a way how things turned out. It's weird how the author managed to go on about how all Sonic's synths and stuff work (oscillations and all that), yet he kept referring to Lord Can You Hear Me? as a 2 chord song when it is infact 3 chords. That's my biggest criticism. 
I didn't realise Spacemen 3 used an eko acoustic guitar. I've got one as well, they're pretty good, and rare to find these days if I'm not mistaken.
Funniest bit? That doodled passport photo. Hours of laughter just looking at it.
I didn't realise Spacemen 3 used an eko acoustic guitar. I've got one as well, they're pretty good, and rare to find these days if I'm not mistaken.Funniest bit? That doodled passport photo. Hours of laughter just looking at it.
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andyblacktoo
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i tracked down a copy yesterday in birmingham hmv, and read the entire book last night.
Overall, I think Erik has done really well, hes managed to cover the entire story without taking bias or side. It managed to remind me of a lot of rugby things in 80's, I'd forgotten about Christopher Fitzgerald and his father prolific media campaign against drugs, and the Blitz is no-longer called Gas Street 2, and has just been revamped again.
The only points I have are really pedantic ones (not that Im that fussy), Manchester Boardwalk was a former sunday school, not a dank warehouse. Rugby is on the M6, not the M1. Lutterworth is a significant town rather than a village, and the formal Paper Tiger chinese has no foyer. oh, and its gorkys zygotic mynci, not mynki.
Otherwise, it was rather entertaining, I've passed it onto my dad, who no doubt will also know some of the Rugby luminaries mentioned in it.
Overall, I think Erik has done really well, hes managed to cover the entire story without taking bias or side. It managed to remind me of a lot of rugby things in 80's, I'd forgotten about Christopher Fitzgerald and his father prolific media campaign against drugs, and the Blitz is no-longer called Gas Street 2, and has just been revamped again.
The only points I have are really pedantic ones (not that Im that fussy), Manchester Boardwalk was a former sunday school, not a dank warehouse. Rugby is on the M6, not the M1. Lutterworth is a significant town rather than a village, and the formal Paper Tiger chinese has no foyer. oh, and its gorkys zygotic mynci, not mynki.
Otherwise, it was rather entertaining, I've passed it onto my dad, who no doubt will also know some of the Rugby luminaries mentioned in it.
<sigh> How I miss the Saracens Head. Spent all of my fomative Friday and Saturday nights there, drinking newky brown, and making some rather poor attempts to engage with the ladies. </sigh>
Perhaps he got confused with the Web Ellis, which was sort of opposite Rugby School?
I may try to have a few drinks in Rugby over christmas, to see how the place has changed.
Perhaps he got confused with the Web Ellis, which was sort of opposite Rugby School?
I may try to have a few drinks in Rugby over christmas, to see how the place has changed.
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pete kember
dear oh dear ,mh wrote:Should we read anything into the use of the present tense in this quote: "How could I be friends with Pat (drinks like a . . .) Fish, Goff or Jason . All of whom are big drinkers"???
Or just wishful thinking...?
I guess you can read what you like into it.....
hmmm.......is that the biggest stick you can find ?
now I remember why I abhor these sites -this one being particularly corporate ................
I really started enjoying it about 1/3 in as well, that intro just wasn't for me.
Loved most of it though, even with the sometimes bitter tone. I suppose that's par for the course. jason and sonic both come across as pretty darn uncompromising and i'm sure that turns plenty of people off. it also turns out some good music.
the comment about sonic driving right behind another car in the passing lane gave me a good laugh, I do that myself even though I know it's obnoxious.
Were any of Jason's quotes directly to the author, or are the all from other sources? It was hard for me to tell sometimes. also nice to see some familiar names in the book and credits, and some of runcible's stash.
Loved most of it though, even with the sometimes bitter tone. I suppose that's par for the course. jason and sonic both come across as pretty darn uncompromising and i'm sure that turns plenty of people off. it also turns out some good music.
the comment about sonic driving right behind another car in the passing lane gave me a good laugh, I do that myself even though I know it's obnoxious.
Were any of Jason's quotes directly to the author, or are the all from other sources? It was hard for me to tell sometimes. also nice to see some familiar names in the book and credits, and some of runcible's stash.
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will this do?
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Now, wait just a fucking minute. I (as a long-time member, rather than any kind of representative) resent that.pete kember wrote: now I remember why I abhor these sites -this one being particularly corporate ................
There is very little that is corporate about this discussion forum at all (whatever you intended to mean by the word 'corporate').
1. There is next to no involvement by anyone dirctly concerned with Spiritualized Ltd in the site, and precisely no involement in anything on this forum.
2. There is no 'body politic' or 'editorial policy' on the forum (beyond the summary deletion of people spamming things).
3. Quite a lot of us spend quite a lot of the time we spend discussing Spiritualized (which itself is not a lot of the time), discussing their (his?) extensive shortcomings. I myself, for example, hate Spiritualized (...).
Furthermore, I can't really understand why you took such umbrage at the fellow's post. He was merely clutching at an apparent straw that you and Jason may soon bury the hatchet, on account of your using the present tense. I think. But just because you're paranoid ect. ect.
(of course, you've gone now, so you won't read this...or else you will read this and conclude that I'm just another part of the problem)
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umm bridge
umm umm umm
Wot to do.
You don't see a joke?
I've had posts deleted off this corporate board.
Hiding Something?
You don't see a joke?
I've had posts deleted off this corporate board.
Hiding Something?
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Guest
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a beautiful noise
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i've finished the spacemen book
clearly feathers get quite ruffled on this here board. its just a book, if you weren't in the band you won't ever know for sure and yes there hasn't been one written before and we'd all like to know but for what? its the music that counts and we all have access to that and our own interpetations from that. isn't that the point? not whether or not j's high or if pete's sportin moccosin's doesn't matter. get on with it, we've got bigger problems at hand like 4 more years of bush!
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BzaInSpace
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will this do?
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Well, that's NOT what I was doing (or at least not what I was hoping for). I was joining someone (Peter Kember, apparently) in debate about something he'd said, and defending some of the discussions which go on here. What I got in response, instead of a point of view which countered my own, was just more of the same name calling crap from an 'anonymous'. In my opinion.Anonymous wrote:Nice going Will, why not discourage the few interesting posters that do bother to occassionally turn up around here?
who is ummm bridge?
I have no idea who umm bridge is.
Sorry, that was me. Wasn't logged in.will this do wrote:
Now, wait just a fucking minute...
Anonymous wrote:
Nice going Will, why not discourage the few interesting posters that do bother to occassionally turn up around here?
who is ummm bridge?
will this do wrote:
Well, that's NOT what I was doing (or at least not what I was hoping for). I was joining someone (Peter Kember, apparently) in debate about something he'd said, and defending some of the discussions which go on here. What I got in response, instead of a point of view which countered my own, was just more of the same name calling crap from an 'anonymous'. In my opinion.
I have no idea who umm bridge is.
No name calling and no offence meant, just couldn't understand why you got so overexcited as his original comment re Jason had clearly being taken out of context. I for one have missed Pete's presence on this board and IMO you've perhaps been a bit over defensive lately, given YOUR recent name calling crap on the "creation band" thread. Lighten up or hurry up and menstruate.
A little loving
a little giving
to make a dream from
this world we live in
A little patience
and understanding
for our tomorrow
a little peace.
- Nicole, 198?
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will this do?
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Re: umm umm umm
(post edited to note that it was written before I read Nasty's post above)
You've had posts deleted off the board? I'm sorry, but it wasn't me. What was the nature of the deleted posts (if you'd like to tell me)? I am not involved in the running of this board in any way. But as I say, as far as I know the moderators don't delete posts unless they are especially objectionable. All the while I've been here, I've been able to say pretty much anything I want to, on any subject. There are plenty of people here with whom I disagree, and plenty more who disagree with me.
Disagreeing is not the same as being disagreeable.
As I said, you can clarify your definition of "corporate", and explain why you think this board falls into that definition.
And I'm happy to say that personally I've nothing to hide.
Obviously I missed the joke. But there are so many potential jokes in that post. Did the person writing mean the opposite of what they were saying? Was the identity of the person not as it appeared (Sonic did post here a few times, but his 'login' was "Sonic Boom", not "Peter Kember"...I'm tempted to draw a conclusion, but perhaps he forgot his password). So fill me in, please.umm bridge wrote:Wot to do.
You don't see a joke?
I've had posts deleted off this corporate board.
Hiding Something?
You've had posts deleted off the board? I'm sorry, but it wasn't me. What was the nature of the deleted posts (if you'd like to tell me)? I am not involved in the running of this board in any way. But as I say, as far as I know the moderators don't delete posts unless they are especially objectionable. All the while I've been here, I've been able to say pretty much anything I want to, on any subject. There are plenty of people here with whom I disagree, and plenty more who disagree with me.
Disagreeing is not the same as being disagreeable.
As I said, you can clarify your definition of "corporate", and explain why you think this board falls into that definition.
And I'm happy to say that personally I've nothing to hide.
what film?assoc. wrote:i'm waiting for the film...
are you talking about the Daniel Johnston documentary??
... actually Kember has the name of the director wrong on his webpage.
it's Jeff Feuerzeig.
name of it is "The Devil and Daniel Johnston".
Sundance fest will show it 2005.
THE DEVIL AND DANIEL JOHNSTON (Director: Jeff Feuerzeig)—Daniel Johnston, manic-depressive genius singer/songwriter/artist, is revealed in this portrait of madness, creativity, and love. World Premiere.
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will this do?
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PK & WTD?
Now I remember why I abhor these sites - this one being particularly corporate ................
Now, wait just a fucking minute. I (as a long-time member, rather than any kind of representative) resent that. There is very little that is corporate about this discussion forum at all (whatever you intended to mean by the word 'corporate').
I wasn’t referring to the forum - who's "paranoid etc." now ?............., (see your quote below.)
Hmmmmmmmm...........methinks when folks get so upset, there is usually a weird mixture of recognition & denial.
1. There is next to no involvement by anyone dirctly concerned with Spiritualized Ltd in the site, and precisely no involement in anything on this forum.
Is that Spiritualized (limited) or Spiritualized (registered copyright)? You're proving my point.
If its not corporate then who on earth set the site up to be, on first access a sales sight for his last album & from there it took me straight to T-Shirt salesville - as the way its put together, the only link u can read that isn’t obscured by said LP sales tool is 'merchandise'. Finding the forum was not a notably high priority to the site builders - from my view of it. I did wonder if the site was playing up. As a very infrequent visitor I can’t say whether this was normal. But actually - I just re-checked, it’s the same.
2. There is no 'body politic' or 'editorial policy' on the forum (beyond the summary deletion of people spamming things).
I'm not sure I remember mentioning any such politics or policy. It might be good though if people edited themselves ............... some of the comments I noticed verged on the puerile & make the site quickly seem rather pre-teen. In fact a lot of it, whether about airline peanuts (?) or me or Jason etc. is IMO rather a waste of time. Totally fruitless & more likely destructive.
3. Quite a lot of us spend quite a lot of the time we spend discussing Spiritualized (which itself is not a lot of the time), discussing their (his?) extensive shortcomings. I myself, for example, hateSpiritualized (...).
I think I can work out what you're trying to say above - good job I have better things to do than make catty comments based on poor grammar. I don’t hate Spiritualized at all. I liked Jason a great deal. He can be very witty, charming & incredibly smart. I also like a bunch of his stuff - including some of his early Spiritualized trax. I want you is one of my favourite things he wrote. I'd agree the latter pseudo-'Sister-Ann' meets Bob Seger sound does little for me , but that’s personal taste. I think he does do it well. My opinions about other stuff are irrelevant, as much as some of the content of your site is.
I'm sure you'd all be better off not wasting time talking about someone’s supposed 'extensive shortcomings' - cos we know what an angel you are and definitely in position to be thrower of the first rock , right................. No wonder the poor guy doesn’t want to interact. You do not know him. You do not know me. You do not know shit for a zillion books on it you might read (and believe probably, I'd suggest). For the sin of trying to do a bit of music I now have to justify & defend my life/lifestyle to every one who thinks they 'know' me. And there’s me with all sorts of naive, benign thoughts about sending out musical smiles to folks that I felt, like me 'n' Jase, were slipping thru the cracks.
Furthermore, I can't really understand why you took such umbrage at the fellow's post. He was merely clutching at an apparent straw that you and Jason may soon bury the hatchet, on account of your using the present tense. I think. But just because you're paranoid ect. ect.
I wasn’t aware my post was so hurtful. I apologize. (I try never to take umbrage). I thought folk that gave it out were prepared for the response though? It is very clear from his post what he was sniping at. If you think I've given it a second thought since, you must've forgotten that I have to work surprisingly hard to do, like Jason, something which is ultimately meant for your benefit & enjoyment.
Actually, I think if you re-read the post you'll find it was more nit-picking than match-making. I’ll agree the post was basically saying thru my misuse of grammar that I was 'wishfully thinking' or some such . I cant find the inclination to look back over it now. I think as the subject of the post I have as much right as anyone to interpret it.
(of course, you've gone now, so you won't read this...or else you will read this and conclude that I'm just another part of the problem)
What problem? Which one would that be? How would/should I perceive you as a problem?..... Weren’t you calling me paranoid?....................
Merry Christmas & a Happy New Year
Pete K
Now I remember why I abhor these sites - this one being particularly corporate ................
Now, wait just a fucking minute. I (as a long-time member, rather than any kind of representative) resent that. There is very little that is corporate about this discussion forum at all (whatever you intended to mean by the word 'corporate').
I wasn’t referring to the forum - who's "paranoid etc." now ?............., (see your quote below.)
Hmmmmmmmm...........methinks when folks get so upset, there is usually a weird mixture of recognition & denial.
1. There is next to no involvement by anyone dirctly concerned with Spiritualized Ltd in the site, and precisely no involement in anything on this forum.
Is that Spiritualized (limited) or Spiritualized (registered copyright)? You're proving my point.
If its not corporate then who on earth set the site up to be, on first access a sales sight for his last album & from there it took me straight to T-Shirt salesville - as the way its put together, the only link u can read that isn’t obscured by said LP sales tool is 'merchandise'. Finding the forum was not a notably high priority to the site builders - from my view of it. I did wonder if the site was playing up. As a very infrequent visitor I can’t say whether this was normal. But actually - I just re-checked, it’s the same.
2. There is no 'body politic' or 'editorial policy' on the forum (beyond the summary deletion of people spamming things).
I'm not sure I remember mentioning any such politics or policy. It might be good though if people edited themselves ............... some of the comments I noticed verged on the puerile & make the site quickly seem rather pre-teen. In fact a lot of it, whether about airline peanuts (?) or me or Jason etc. is IMO rather a waste of time. Totally fruitless & more likely destructive.
3. Quite a lot of us spend quite a lot of the time we spend discussing Spiritualized (which itself is not a lot of the time), discussing their (his?) extensive shortcomings. I myself, for example, hateSpiritualized (...).
I think I can work out what you're trying to say above - good job I have better things to do than make catty comments based on poor grammar. I don’t hate Spiritualized at all. I liked Jason a great deal. He can be very witty, charming & incredibly smart. I also like a bunch of his stuff - including some of his early Spiritualized trax. I want you is one of my favourite things he wrote. I'd agree the latter pseudo-'Sister-Ann' meets Bob Seger sound does little for me , but that’s personal taste. I think he does do it well. My opinions about other stuff are irrelevant, as much as some of the content of your site is.
I'm sure you'd all be better off not wasting time talking about someone’s supposed 'extensive shortcomings' - cos we know what an angel you are and definitely in position to be thrower of the first rock , right................. No wonder the poor guy doesn’t want to interact. You do not know him. You do not know me. You do not know shit for a zillion books on it you might read (and believe probably, I'd suggest). For the sin of trying to do a bit of music I now have to justify & defend my life/lifestyle to every one who thinks they 'know' me. And there’s me with all sorts of naive, benign thoughts about sending out musical smiles to folks that I felt, like me 'n' Jase, were slipping thru the cracks.
Furthermore, I can't really understand why you took such umbrage at the fellow's post. He was merely clutching at an apparent straw that you and Jason may soon bury the hatchet, on account of your using the present tense. I think. But just because you're paranoid ect. ect.
I wasn’t aware my post was so hurtful. I apologize. (I try never to take umbrage). I thought folk that gave it out were prepared for the response though? It is very clear from his post what he was sniping at. If you think I've given it a second thought since, you must've forgotten that I have to work surprisingly hard to do, like Jason, something which is ultimately meant for your benefit & enjoyment.
Actually, I think if you re-read the post you'll find it was more nit-picking than match-making. I’ll agree the post was basically saying thru my misuse of grammar that I was 'wishfully thinking' or some such . I cant find the inclination to look back over it now. I think as the subject of the post I have as much right as anyone to interpret it.
(of course, you've gone now, so you won't read this...or else you will read this and conclude that I'm just another part of the problem)
What problem? Which one would that be? How would/should I perceive you as a problem?..... Weren’t you calling me paranoid?....................
Merry Christmas & a Happy New Year
Pete K
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tourist bored
global mapping
[quote="andyblacktoo"]i tracked down a copy yesterday in birmingham hmv, and read the entire book last night.
The only points I have are really pedantic ones (not that Im that fussy), Manchester Boardwalk was a former sunday school, not a dank warehouse. Rugby is on the M6, not the M1. quote]
Rugby lives on the Junction 1 off the M6 and junction 18 off the M1. Just to clarify you could take the A14 if you're coming from the Anglia area.
A smiling face will greet you on entering the borough.
Crank anyone??
The only points I have are really pedantic ones (not that Im that fussy), Manchester Boardwalk was a former sunday school, not a dank warehouse. Rugby is on the M6, not the M1. quote]
Rugby lives on the Junction 1 off the M6 and junction 18 off the M1. Just to clarify you could take the A14 if you're coming from the Anglia area.
A smiling face will greet you on entering the borough.
Crank anyone??
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andyblacktoo
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Eddie Stobbard
Mary-Jane
DIRFT's been there only Ten years??
Where was J18 before it was built??
Watford Gap Services at 4.00am SToned, fruit machines, egg and chips, weak coffee, sweet memories, whose driving?? Have the still got the 70's blue flying saucer seats, not tested the fare for years.
Shall we start on the A5/Watling Street next?
Where was J18 before it was built??
Watford Gap Services at 4.00am SToned, fruit machines, egg and chips, weak coffee, sweet memories, whose driving?? Have the still got the 70's blue flying saucer seats, not tested the fare for years.
Shall we start on the A5/Watling Street next?
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will this do?
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- Location: Somewhere in the South of England
Well, I tried to construct an answer to the above stuff, posted it, deleted it...
Suffice to say, I think you've just got the wrong end of the stick. I wasn't having a go at you, Sonic. I can see now where the ambiguity in the other guy's post came from, but I think that that my interpretation of it as a 'fan's wish' stands equally with your interpretation of it that 'you've got a problem' or somesuch.
As for the stuff about this being 'my site' or 'their site', I'll reiterate: so far as I'm concerned, this forum is free. To be clear, I don't ever see, or go to the bits that try to sell merchandice. And to be clearer still, the words 'I hate spiritualized' and 'shortcomings' were intended to demonstrate that we can say what we like. You can't have it both ways: the website is either corporate, or the fans (whatever that means) are free to hold any variety of opinions on any subject, and debate them forever. That is why my post offered a few definitions of 'corporate' for examination. And yes I do know who set the website up.
I'm glad you come here, and it would be nice if Jason did too. But if you want this just to become a nice polite place where we queue up to ask you to recall events/flange pedal settings from your past (ancient, recent), then I suggest that would make a very dull read indeed.
By the way, if it's 'preteen' (hmmm) humour you want, try the Will Carruthers forum.
There's only one thing worse than being talked-about.
Suffice to say, I think you've just got the wrong end of the stick. I wasn't having a go at you, Sonic. I can see now where the ambiguity in the other guy's post came from, but I think that that my interpretation of it as a 'fan's wish' stands equally with your interpretation of it that 'you've got a problem' or somesuch.
As for the stuff about this being 'my site' or 'their site', I'll reiterate: so far as I'm concerned, this forum is free. To be clear, I don't ever see, or go to the bits that try to sell merchandice. And to be clearer still, the words 'I hate spiritualized' and 'shortcomings' were intended to demonstrate that we can say what we like. You can't have it both ways: the website is either corporate, or the fans (whatever that means) are free to hold any variety of opinions on any subject, and debate them forever. That is why my post offered a few definitions of 'corporate' for examination. And yes I do know who set the website up.
I'm glad you come here, and it would be nice if Jason did too. But if you want this just to become a nice polite place where we queue up to ask you to recall events/flange pedal settings from your past (ancient, recent), then I suggest that would make a very dull read indeed.
By the way, if it's 'preteen' (hmmm) humour you want, try the Will Carruthers forum.
There's only one thing worse than being talked-about.
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helterskelter111
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will this do?
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mh
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- Location: The corners where the idiot children call
Oh wow I seem to have stirred up a right hoo-hah with an innocent remark merely wishing the best for 2 folks who used to be pals once.will this do? wrote:Well, I tried to construct an answer to the above stuff, posted it, deleted it...
Suffice to say, I think you've just got the wrong end of the stick. I wasn't having a go at you, Sonic. I can see now where the ambiguity in the other guy's post came from, but I think that that my interpretation of it as a 'fan's wish' stands equally with your interpretation of it that 'you've got a problem' or somesuch.
As for the stuff about this being 'my site' or 'their site', I'll reiterate: so far as I'm concerned, this forum is free. To be clear, I don't ever see, or go to the bits that try to sell merchandice. And to be clearer still, the words 'I hate spiritualized' and 'shortcomings' were intended to demonstrate that we can say what we like. You can't have it both ways: the website is either corporate, or the fans (whatever that means) are free to hold any variety of opinions on any subject, and debate them forever. That is why my post offered a few definitions of 'corporate' for examination. And yes I do know who set the website up.
I'm glad you come here, and it would be nice if Jason did too. But if you want this just to become a nice polite place where we queue up to ask you to recall events/flange pedal settings from your past (ancient, recent), then I suggest that would make a very dull read indeed.
By the way, if it's 'preteen' (hmmm) humour you want, try the Will Carruthers forum.
There's only one thing worse than being talked-about.
Pete - I've no interest in prying into your private life. As a Spacemen fan, of course I would be interested in you 2 working together again, and yeh, I take your point about clutching at straws there. You're perfectly correct on that one. But the music that you made together was genuinely wonderful, and there really hasn't been anything like it since. I'm not knocking either parties solo work - they're both valid - but they're also both different to what the Spacemen were.
Of course, I'm leaving myself open to the reply of "get a grip, it's only music" here, ain't I???
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andyblacktoo
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will this do?
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- Location: Somewhere in the South of England
I'm sorry too. But it seems he's made his mind up. Perhaps your explanation, clear as it is, will do what my apparently difficult ones failed to.mh wrote:Oh wow I seem to have stirred up a right hoo-hah with an innocent remark merely wishing the best for 2 folks who used to be pals once.will this do? wrote:Well, I tried to construct an answer to the above stuff, posted it, deleted it...
Suffice to say, I think you've just got the wrong end of the stick. I wasn't having a go at you, Sonic. I can see now where the ambiguity in the other guy's post came from, but I think that that my interpretation of it as a 'fan's wish' stands equally with your interpretation of it that 'you've got a problem' or somesuch.
As for the stuff about this being 'my site' or 'their site', I'll reiterate: so far as I'm concerned, this forum is free. To be clear, I don't ever see, or go to the bits that try to sell merchandice. And to be clearer still, the words 'I hate spiritualized' and 'shortcomings' were intended to demonstrate that we can say what we like. You can't have it both ways: the website is either corporate, or the fans (whatever that means) are free to hold any variety of opinions on any subject, and debate them forever. That is why my post offered a few definitions of 'corporate' for examination. And yes I do know who set the website up.
I'm glad you come here, and it would be nice if Jason did too. But if you want this just to become a nice polite place where we queue up to ask you to recall events/flange pedal settings from your past (ancient, recent), then I suggest that would make a very dull read indeed.
By the way, if it's 'preteen' (hmmm) humour you want, try the Will Carruthers forum.
There's only one thing worse than being talked-about.
Pete - I've no interest in prying into your private life. As a Spacemen fan, of course I would be interested in you 2 working together again, and yeh, I take your point about clutching at straws there. You're perfectly correct on that one. But the music that you made together was genuinely wonderful, and there really hasn't been anything like it since. I'm not knocking either parties solo work - they're both valid - but they're also both different to what the Spacemen were.
Of course, I'm leaving myself open to the reply of "get a grip, it's only music" here, ain't I???
My take on the book now I've finished it.
Its a good read and very interesting. Complaints:
Too many uses of various phrases and words - 'the Spacemen's good looks' 'clouds of hash smoke' etc., plus a few very complex words used unnecessarily.
Pete Bain comes across as a total arse. His sharp bitterness towards Pete K is scary. He uses almost every single opportunity to slag off Pete K and it makes him seems a real prick which is not at all how I remember him - he was always quietly spoken, incredibly friendly and really nice to be around.
I get the impression that all Spacemen gigs up until about mid 1988 were very poor. This isn't how I remember it at all. The gigs I saw in 1988 were completely incredible and I feel priveleged to have witnessed one of the all time great bands. The account of my first Spacemen gig in the book is how it happened. Support band destroys audience.
The split is rushed through too quickly - after the slow build up to the disintegration of Pete and Jason's relationship the event itself seemed to be over in a few pages. The cancellation of the American tour was a tragedy but apart from Greg Shaw's financial loss it wasn't discussed enough.
I guess the concentration is on Sonic being a domineering type and to a certain extent that bit has been sensationalised. I don't think it was to quite the level its protrayed.
But there are lots of good stories, insights and I enjoyed it. Plus the piccies (particularly mine!) are great. I felt really sad at the end where the demise was confirmed. Still makes me feel sad to lose a band like that. I'm just glad Erik took the trouble to write it.
Its a good read and very interesting. Complaints:
Too many uses of various phrases and words - 'the Spacemen's good looks' 'clouds of hash smoke' etc., plus a few very complex words used unnecessarily.
Pete Bain comes across as a total arse. His sharp bitterness towards Pete K is scary. He uses almost every single opportunity to slag off Pete K and it makes him seems a real prick which is not at all how I remember him - he was always quietly spoken, incredibly friendly and really nice to be around.
I get the impression that all Spacemen gigs up until about mid 1988 were very poor. This isn't how I remember it at all. The gigs I saw in 1988 were completely incredible and I feel priveleged to have witnessed one of the all time great bands. The account of my first Spacemen gig in the book is how it happened. Support band destroys audience.
The split is rushed through too quickly - after the slow build up to the disintegration of Pete and Jason's relationship the event itself seemed to be over in a few pages. The cancellation of the American tour was a tragedy but apart from Greg Shaw's financial loss it wasn't discussed enough.
I guess the concentration is on Sonic being a domineering type and to a certain extent that bit has been sensationalised. I don't think it was to quite the level its protrayed.
But there are lots of good stories, insights and I enjoyed it. Plus the piccies (particularly mine!) are great. I felt really sad at the end where the demise was confirmed. Still makes me feel sad to lose a band like that. I'm just glad Erik took the trouble to write it.
I agree with most of that. Although sadly I can't comment on the quality of any spacemen 3 gigs. One thing that made me really wish I was a bit older was the Christmas gigs at the Ben Hall. They sounded loads of fun.
One thing I'd also say is I wish there had been another chapter on the early years of Spiritualized, at least until Will and Mark left the band. The book did seem to finish abruptly.
One thing I'd also say is I wish there had been another chapter on the early years of Spiritualized, at least until Will and Mark left the band. The book did seem to finish abruptly.
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